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[Music]

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explode the bazaars or e-ticket ride

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into the world of the paranoid

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strap yourself even as we traverse the

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universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

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ghosts Lost Worlds

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cryptozoology waters as well as other

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dimensions it's time to take back the

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night night now your electrifying hosts

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of exploring the bizarre Timothy Begley

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Oh help me help me will ya Tim yeah ah

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there you are what are you doing out

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here in this mysterious Valley and wire

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mistook me for cattle

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that would explain oh no oh did you see

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who did it

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was it aliens or or a secret military

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group oh I can't look at that no no it

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was the doctors from my Medical Center I

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just can't keep their hands off of me

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well how are we gonna do tonight show

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with holes cut out oh don't worry I've

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got an emergency wrist radio when they

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get in trouble I press this here button

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and it activates the wrist radio that

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Indrid cold where's Wow

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so that's why they call you mr. UFO well

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that's one of the reasons anyway once

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Indrid scans me he'll fix me up and

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teleport me back to he would be

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disappearing disappearing from area 51

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and

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in the kco art studio Oh give me a

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minute the room always spins for me

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after I teleport Oh trust me you'll get

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used to it after a few hundred years see

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I'm whole again

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no more halls no more hauls the thank

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heavens I couldn't look at that for

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another minute what can you do well [\h__\h]

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well find a replacement for you are you

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out there in Jasper Indiana where the

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not always I haven't seen the Sun lights

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or the moon for a few days now it's been

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cloudy and snowy and just black typical

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Indiana weather well you know you and I

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are both lucky we we could live in some

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other parts of the country like Wyoming

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or Montana and we wouldn't be able to do

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the grout even the feed the the cattle

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even if they were mutilated in fact I

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guess that's partly what we're gonna be

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talking about this evening and then well

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do you know that that's that's one

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aspect of tonight's conversation well

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why don't you tell us all the aspects of

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it to introduce our guests okay well you

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know we have two fantastic guests we

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have Norio Hayakawa and Chris O'Brien

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now I've I've talked to both Nouriel and

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Chris before on previous programs but I

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think this may be their first time on

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exploring the bazaar so I love it when

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we have a new new guest on our on our

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program so let's start out with nori oh

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now Norio Hayakawa calls himself an

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Orthodox you apologist and activist

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Hayakawa was nearly has nearly half a

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century of research behind him an

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extensive 45 years in-depth study on the

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UFO phenomena now in 1990 he organized a

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network called the civilian intelligence

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network

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begin to conduct the rural research on

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area 51 in Nevada now he says that there

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is much more to area 51 than just

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superficial facts made public about this

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now well no mace in 1990 he also began

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to investigate the strange going on that

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Dulce New Mexico and the widespread

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claims about the existence of a top

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secret underground base there his

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present focus is on the study of how a

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segment of the populations die hard

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beliefs and physical UFOs and aliens

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have been manipulated and in some cases

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these beliefs have been deliberately

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created and taking advantage and taken

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advantage of by the US intelligence

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community and by the military in

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counterintelligence operations and

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promoted on a daily basis also with us

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tonight is a Chris O'Brien and fro so

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from 1992 to 2002 Chris investigated

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hundreds of unexplained events in

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south-central Colorado and north-central

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New Mexico his investigation is found in

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his mysterious Valley book trilogy

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excellent group of books highly

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recommend them and documentation of his

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field investigation of UAVs UFOs cattle

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mutilations crypto creatures suspected

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military activity etc O'Brien has

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appeared in over 70 TV shows segments

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and hundreds of radio programs including

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close to coast ancient aliens UFO

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Hunters Inside Edition and of course his

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latest book is stalking the herd and is

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the most comprehensive book ever written

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and it certainly is unraveling the

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controversial cattle mutilation mystery

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so gentlemen thank you very much for

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being with us tonight on exploring the

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bizarre all right Tim squared well what

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yeah yeah well won't this confuse the

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everybody here now hey I've got a

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question that Chris let's start out with

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you because I think I've known you the

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the longest probably going on 40 years

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would you say we first met in New York

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yeah it's so

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amazing how much time is gone by and how

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many how many mutilated cattle and all

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later

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yeah well that's part of it yeah well

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how many well your main I mean you are

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an all-around the researcher as far as

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I'm concerned but I guess you're best

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known for mutilations how did you get

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all started in that aspect of of you FOC

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you were you were a city boy to some

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degree and then you you wantyou you left

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town and you you didn't come back until

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a recently you're in upstate New York

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now right yeah I'm up on the Binghamton

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area currently yeah well I you know

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growing up in Washington State of course

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during the mid 70s while I was in high

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school I was aware of the mutilations

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going on and as a ten year old I

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remember seeing the headlines in the

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National Enquirer of the the infamous

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snippy the horse case which was the

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first publicized case of this type and

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and so I'd always been aware of this

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mystery but you know I never I never

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thought that I would ever become

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involved in personally investigating and

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researching cases of this type but in

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1989 I moved out to Colorado and to the

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San Luis Valley which is the largest

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alpine valley in the world it's about

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140 miles long and totally surrounded by

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mountains and it's at 7,000 feet and one

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of the poorest areas in in in America

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and and one of the most remote they

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didn't get television there until for

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instance until the 80s and you know I

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was working in construction and trying

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to you know gain a foothold there I did

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not move there because of the weird

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things that have been reported there I

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moved there because I just fell in love

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with the beauty there and virtually I'd

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moved to Santa Fe and didn't like it and

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had friends up in the valley and so I

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moved up there and and and I ended up

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staying for 13 years and well you you

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were a musician when I when I

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meant you I mean maybe you still are

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yeah yeah yeah yeah and you were doing

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your studio work and all here and then

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you disappeared one day and you showed

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up so what was the first time you were

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if I remember correctly you were at a

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party or something and the subject of

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mutilations came up well there had been

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a rash of UFO reports in around would

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have been a Thanksgiving weekend of 1992

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and I was away gigging with my band so I

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was I missed them but a sizable

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percentage of my little town happened to

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see these 200-foot ovals it came down

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out of the mountains and hovered over

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town and took off and in two different

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directions and you know I'd heard rumors

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about it over the next couple three

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weeks and I had a New Year's Eve party

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you know New Year's Eve 92 and and at

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one point in the party everywhere I went

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in the house there's about 30 or 40

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people I mean a god the majority of the

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people in the house had seen these

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things and and so I you know I started

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was quizzing everybody and I brought

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everybody together and said you know

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that you you guys all saw this and they

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they weren't aware that there were so

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many other witnesses and somebody piped

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up and said oh that was the same night

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there was a cattle mutilation south of

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where we lived and so I got I literally

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became an investigator that night and I

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by the the end of the two-week period

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before I wrote an article for my little

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paper I realized I had uncovered enough

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material to write a book and and within

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two months I was on national television

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it's just bizarre the way the whole

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thing kind of kicked off right then and

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and now you know 25 30 years later I'm

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I'm still at it trying to figure out

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what the heck's going on and I'm

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probably more confused now

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well maybe not put I like to say that

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I'm more confused than I was when I

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started well I think we all are to some

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degree because there's no one rational

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answer to all of this I mean that's the

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the trick we've been we've been deceived

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into thinking that the UFOs are either

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vehicles that are being tested for a

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hell of a long time okay so no the first

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few reports that you study the first

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hand did they involve mysterious lights

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no they didn't actually the first ones

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did not they involved helicopters and

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then and then later I did have some

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reports that did have some lights

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associated with them but they were the

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minority of reports out of the 200 cases

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that that I personally investigated most

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of the cases had absolutely no

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indication of what happened to the

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animals or who was involved what was

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involved in perpetrating these horrific

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crimes there were exceptions there were

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some lights that were reported no

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structural craft except for helicopters

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helicopters these are the mysterious

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black helicopters that we hear so lame

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they've actually been the followed by

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them and our guests that coming up there

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nuria hike our I believe I remember a

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video where he was nearing a area 51 and

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one swooped down over the vehicle they

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were in if I remember correctly but okay

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what's the story on the helicopters are

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there military well that would be the

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assumption I think the majority of them

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are called black because whenever you

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look against blue sky anything

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dark-colored is gonna appear to be black

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I think the majority of them were all of

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drab camo camouflage

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you know forest green camo pattern some

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gray and black camo patterns of there

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were a few shiny black helicopters that

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were reported but they were in the

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minority on coloured helicopters were

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reported white with red tails blue in

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one case I was reported as a black

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helicopter and I was flying in a purple

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helicopter

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seem like the next day

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are they founding the yes the the kids

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of mutilated cattle most of them are

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seen after like somebody's checking the

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area out a few were seen in the area

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before in terms of the cases that I

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personally investigated

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I had no reports except for one or two

273
00:14:18,780 --> 00:14:15,309
that helicopters were seen the night of

274
00:14:22,679 --> 00:14:18,790
the actual mutilation and on the ranch

275
00:14:25,470 --> 00:14:22,689
where it's where it occurred and and

276
00:14:32,660 --> 00:14:25,480
what did you assume by this

277
00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:32,670
I don't assume anything okay but I mean

278
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:36,850
is it okay first of all there may be a

279
00:14:42,749 --> 00:14:39,730
few listeners who are not familiar with

280
00:14:46,139 --> 00:14:42,759
how you can tell a real mutilated animal

281
00:14:48,419 --> 00:14:46,149
from one that may have died of a very

282
00:14:51,299 --> 00:14:48,429
simple disease yeah go ahead

283
00:14:53,789 --> 00:14:51,309
yeah very simple yeah cut hair follicles

284
00:14:56,220 --> 00:14:53,799
if you see cut hair follicles something

285
00:14:59,069 --> 00:14:56,230
did that to the animal with intelligence

286
00:15:08,159 --> 00:14:59,079
and with the aid of a sharp cutting

287
00:15:12,269 --> 00:15:08,169
implement the visibility or non

288
00:15:15,329 --> 00:15:12,279
visibility of blood again if the animals

289
00:15:16,439 --> 00:15:15,339
dead and then it's a let's say scavenged

290
00:15:18,449 --> 00:15:16,449
or cut

291
00:15:20,309 --> 00:15:18,459
you're not gonna happen because you have

292
00:15:22,259 --> 00:15:20,319
a cessation of blood pressure you're not

293
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:22,269
going to have any bleeding so that's a

294
00:15:27,749 --> 00:15:24,850
bit of a misnomer quite a number of

295
00:15:30,090 --> 00:15:27,759
cases I the rancher said well they they

296
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:30,100
drain this animal blood and I said okay

297
00:15:34,559 --> 00:15:32,410
well let's see and so I get him and

298
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:34,569
maybe a couple other people and we we'd

299
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:36,490
flip the animal over and woo

300
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:38,170
everything would come out of the body

301
00:15:42,780 --> 00:15:41,170
cavity gravity gravity draws all the

302
00:15:44,670 --> 00:15:42,790
constituent elements in the blood down

303
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:44,680
to the lower part of the body cavity and

304
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:50,290
you know the unaided amateur I is not

305
00:15:55,740 --> 00:15:53,410
gonna really be too up to speed on what

306
00:15:57,420 --> 00:15:55,750
they're looking at and in most of the

307
00:16:00,530 --> 00:15:57,430
time in a desert environment you're

308
00:16:03,810 --> 00:16:00,540
gonna be losing a lot of the the the o2

309
00:16:05,970 --> 00:16:03,820
the h2o you know the water portion of

310
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:05,980
the of the blood is going to be wicking

311
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:09,130
away and evaporating leaving behind the

312
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:11,770
you know the more the red blood cells

313
00:16:18,510 --> 00:16:16,510
the the serum you know the more Hardy

314
00:16:19,830 --> 00:16:18,520
constituents in the blood will be left

315
00:16:21,780 --> 00:16:19,840
and down at the bottom of the body

316
00:16:25,170 --> 00:16:21,790
cavity and all you have to do is flip it

317
00:16:27,270 --> 00:16:25,180
over and it all comes pouring out it's a

318
00:16:30,990 --> 00:16:27,280
misnomer that the majority of these

319
00:16:32,340 --> 00:16:31,000
cases are drained of blood okay are some

320
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:32,350
of them drained of blood

321
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:36,970
yes it's rare we have to cut into the

322
00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:39,040
meat if the meat is gray or just

323
00:16:43,290 --> 00:16:41,920
slightly pink instead of red then the

324
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:43,300
animal has been drained the blood and

325
00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:46,210
that's very very it's it's the exception

326
00:16:51,950 --> 00:16:49,510
not the norm and very very difficult why

327
00:16:56,670 --> 00:16:51,960
would it why who would do that and why

328
00:16:59,970 --> 00:16:56,680
that's standard $64,000 question how

329
00:17:01,710 --> 00:16:59,980
would they do it number one is yeah the

330
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:01,720
best way to do it would be able to allow

331
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:04,810
the animal to pump itself dry but to get

332
00:17:10,260 --> 00:17:07,690
it to the capillary level to get the

333
00:17:11,790 --> 00:17:10,270
blood to be actually drained you know

334
00:17:14,250 --> 00:17:11,800
all the way down so that the blood is

335
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:14,260
gray or slightly pinkish I mean you'd

336
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:16,930
have to you'd have to have some serious

337
00:17:21,150 --> 00:17:18,880
equipment in the field running on

338
00:17:22,970 --> 00:17:21,160
batteries in the dead of night to be

339
00:17:27,210 --> 00:17:22,980
able to pull that off it's pretty please

340
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:27,220
also - now we're talking about mutilated

341
00:17:33,150 --> 00:17:30,490
or are we talking about a stack of them

342
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:33,160
one or two at a time a whole heart I

343
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,290
mean that a whole herd but more than one

344
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:37,120
I mean because it would seem to me if

345
00:17:43,050 --> 00:17:41,290
somebody's there mutilating a cattle the

346
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:43,060
rest of them are not going to would just

347
00:17:49,860 --> 00:17:47,290
stand around and watch no no you know

348
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:49,870
most of the time these are one

349
00:17:54,660 --> 00:17:52,000
usually to animals but but rarely do you

350
00:17:57,780 --> 00:17:54,670
have you know numbers of animals being

351
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:57,790
found in a single single case although

352
00:18:03,299 --> 00:18:00,880
there were some the Hermione oh and and

353
00:18:05,610 --> 00:18:03,309
we had a case over in La Veta I think he

354
00:18:07,860 --> 00:18:05,620
had nine in one night or it may have

355
00:18:09,570 --> 00:18:07,870
been as many as 13 I'd have to check my

356
00:18:12,570 --> 00:18:09,580
notes but there were quite a number of

357
00:18:14,190 --> 00:18:12,580
them and there were also world spots in

358
00:18:16,110 --> 00:18:14,200
the grass around them as well that

359
00:18:18,990 --> 00:18:16,120
seemed to be depressed into the to the

360
00:18:21,540 --> 00:18:19,000
pasture so you know there were there

361
00:18:22,919 --> 00:18:21,550
were exceptions to every rule that you

362
00:18:26,610 --> 00:18:22,929
think you can come up with there's

363
00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:26,620
always exceptions to it and how about we

364
00:18:34,530 --> 00:18:30,400
hear a lot about the sexual organs being

365
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:34,540
removed yeah this is the soft tissue

366
00:18:39,630 --> 00:18:37,210
organ generally the ones that are that

367
00:18:43,740 --> 00:18:39,640
are taken the organs that we as humans

368
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:43,750
tend to develop cancer and oftentimes so

369
00:18:47,790 --> 00:18:45,730
for some of your listeners who maybe not

370
00:18:50,030 --> 00:18:47,800
know what we're really talking about

371
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:50,040
here a cattle mutilation or a livestock

372
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:53,170
unexplained livestock death is a as an

373
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:54,850
animal that's died for no apparent

374
00:18:59,700 --> 00:18:57,520
reason there's no tracks around

375
00:19:02,640 --> 00:18:59,710
sometimes its own tracks aren't even

376
00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:02,650
there there's no indication of how how

377
00:19:09,810 --> 00:19:07,230
this thing died or was disfigured and

378
00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:09,820
basically what they do is they go in and

379
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:12,670
they'll take out the the tongue from

380
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:14,410
deep within the throat they'll take out

381
00:19:18,210 --> 00:19:16,960
these sexual organs if it's a bull or

382
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:18,220
the outer genitalia

383
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:21,130
they'll green out the core of the of the

384
00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:24,490
the reproductive tract of a cow they'll

385
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:26,710
take off the mammary glands or the other

386
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:29,710
and the others and the bag and I

387
00:19:36,270 --> 00:19:33,370
possibly in here a patch of skin there's

388
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:36,280
no real rhyme or reason except for the

389
00:19:41,850 --> 00:19:39,370
mandible they'll dellux eyes the skin

390
00:19:44,490 --> 00:19:41,860
around the jawbone pull the tongue out

391
00:19:47,790 --> 00:19:44,500
and then oftentimes the jawbone will be

392
00:19:50,299 --> 00:19:47,800
bleached white in a very almost

393
00:19:54,990 --> 00:19:50,309
impossible manner it's very difficult to

394
00:19:57,030 --> 00:19:55,000
duplicate that particular detail and so

395
00:19:59,370 --> 00:19:57,040
that would be a classic mutilation now

396
00:20:02,040 --> 00:19:59,380
any number of combinations of those

397
00:20:03,650 --> 00:20:02,050
organs can be found missing from a

398
00:20:06,340 --> 00:20:03,660
permit from

399
00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:06,350
perhaps there's no tire marks there's no

400
00:20:11,780 --> 00:20:09,000
cigarette butts generally although

401
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:11,790
there's exceptions tallest sometimes the

402
00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:14,250
animals found in the wrong pasture like

403
00:20:19,070 --> 00:20:16,350
it's been taken somewhere expanded on

404
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:19,080
and dropped back in the wrong place we

405
00:20:25,940 --> 00:20:22,530
care about here we hear about these

406
00:20:28,850 --> 00:20:25,950
cattle being lifted up and a drop is

407
00:20:30,740 --> 00:20:28,860
there any evidence of that yeah

408
00:20:34,010 --> 00:20:30,750
absolutely we've had animals that have

409
00:20:36,620 --> 00:20:34,020
obvious clamp marks in the back legs all

410
00:20:39,020 --> 00:20:36,630
the downside ribs have been broken horns

411
00:20:41,330 --> 00:20:39,030
have been snapped off horns have been

412
00:20:43,550 --> 00:20:41,340
driven into the ground broken legs

413
00:20:47,030 --> 00:20:43,560
broken backs like they've been dropped

414
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:47,040
from you know 50 feet hundred feet when

415
00:20:50,930 --> 00:20:48,480
you drop an animal that weighs about

416
00:20:53,930 --> 00:20:50,940
1,200 pounds or you know even 5 or 600

417
00:20:56,090 --> 00:20:53,940
pounds you know from even 30 or 40 feet

418
00:20:59,210 --> 00:20:56,100
you're gonna be breaking bones we've had

419
00:21:01,520 --> 00:20:59,220
animals with their necks broken with the

420
00:21:04,250 --> 00:21:01,530
horns driven into the ground and snapped

421
00:21:08,660 --> 00:21:04,260
off all the ribs on the downside broken

422
00:21:11,630 --> 00:21:08,670
right next to the spine it's again this

423
00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:11,640
is not these these are exceptions not

424
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:13,110
all the cases are alike

425
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:17,970
anybody see this happen not to my

426
00:21:21,860 --> 00:21:20,370
knowledge I've never seen a case where

427
00:21:23,630 --> 00:21:21,870
somebody has claimed to have seen this

428
00:21:26,540 --> 00:21:23,640
we've had cases where people have seen

429
00:21:28,430 --> 00:21:26,550
helicopters flying with a cable in a cow

430
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:28,440
struggling underneath at the bottom of

431
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:40,410
the cable well that's close unless you

432
00:21:47,780 --> 00:21:44,610
can believe that these helicopters could

433
00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:47,790
be camouflaged to UFOs because we do

434
00:21:54,620 --> 00:21:51,510
know now for a fact that the UFOs some

435
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:54,630
of them have the ability to transform

436
00:21:59,180 --> 00:21:56,880
themselves as shape-wise I mean I I've

437
00:22:01,070 --> 00:21:59,190
got any number of reports I mean it's

438
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:01,080
hard to believe you can go from a a

439
00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:03,510
discourse or cigar shaped object to a

440
00:22:09,410 --> 00:22:06,000
helicopter but anything is darn well

441
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:09,420
possible in this in this field I would

442
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:11,280
think you can't fact everything out but

443
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:13,290
you know Occam's razor if it looks like

444
00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:14,730
a helicopter makes sound like a

445
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:16,809
helicopter and if you open

446
00:22:20,610 --> 00:22:18,490
deputies fire at it and it starts

447
00:22:22,889 --> 00:22:20,620
smoking and clanking it's pretty much

448
00:22:26,940 --> 00:22:22,899
probably gonna be a helicopter well have

449
00:22:28,169 --> 00:22:26,950
they shot at it oh yeah and they fit it

450
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:28,179
oh yeah

451
00:22:34,019 --> 00:22:31,840
and a helicopter hasn't come down no we

452
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:34,029
know but they thought it they said it

453
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:35,440
would have a hard time making it back to

454
00:22:43,110 --> 00:22:40,570
Fort Carson but that seems awful strange

455
00:22:45,239 --> 00:22:43,120
I mean if you start shooting if it's

456
00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:45,249
ability well if you start shooting in a

457
00:22:50,190 --> 00:22:47,529
military helicopter you hit it you're

458
00:22:52,350 --> 00:22:50,200
gonna have the military out on your ass

459
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:52,360
well there have been gun fights with

460
00:23:01,889 --> 00:22:55,600
helicopter crews and ranches happened in

461
00:23:05,279 --> 00:23:01,899
Missouri back in 72 Kansas that's a new

462
00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:05,289
one for me I haven't heard that no

463
00:23:10,590 --> 00:23:08,230
that's a new switch on the okay Corral I

464
00:23:13,279 --> 00:23:10,600
would say yeah yeah and there was a team

465
00:23:18,389 --> 00:23:13,289
on the ground that fired at the rancher

466
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:18,399
and it was a team on the ground what was

467
00:23:25,859 --> 00:23:22,090
that it was anybody hit I don't believe

468
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:25,869
so no see that that is that is so

469
00:23:30,629 --> 00:23:28,210
strange I didn't say it

470
00:23:33,869 --> 00:23:30,639
it almost boggles the mind won't you say

471
00:23:35,999 --> 00:23:33,879
what yep we have to bounce my mind so

472
00:23:37,470 --> 00:23:36,009
much that we're gonna have to go to the

473
00:23:39,180 --> 00:23:37,480
are bottom of the hour break so when we

474
00:23:41,399 --> 00:23:39,190
come back we'll bring Norio Hayakawa

475
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:41,409
into the conversation on exploring the

476
00:23:52,090 --> 00:23:43,090
discipline for dipping

477
00:23:58,820 --> 00:23:56,240
now back to exploring the bazaar with

478
00:24:01,820 --> 00:23:58,830
two of the most electrifying researchers

479
00:24:07,159 --> 00:24:01,830
in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy

480
00:24:09,380 --> 00:24:07,169
Rebecca Lee panting alright welcome back

481
00:24:12,019 --> 00:24:09,390
to exploring the bazaar I'm Tim Schwarz

482
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:12,029
tonight we're talking with Chris O'Brien

483
00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:14,159
and now we're going to bring Norrell

484
00:24:17,870 --> 00:24:16,590
Hayakawa into the conversation Nouriel

485
00:24:22,940 --> 00:24:17,880
thanks for being with us tonight

486
00:24:25,549 --> 00:24:22,950
thank you so much it's it's it's really

487
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:25,559
it's it's our pleasure now

488
00:24:31,820 --> 00:24:29,610
Nouriel I have I have followed your work

489
00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:31,830
for a long time you know read your

490
00:24:35,779 --> 00:24:33,990
articles and I mean now you know you

491
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:35,789
have an online present and YouTube

492
00:24:46,039 --> 00:24:41,370
channels and so UFOs really have been a

493
00:24:49,539 --> 00:24:46,049
part of your life for for quite a ways

494
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:49,549
back I guess at both of your parents

495
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:52,799
have had had UFO experiences at what

496
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:54,690
time that's true

497
00:25:00,820 --> 00:24:57,570
actually my father claimed to have

498
00:25:05,630 --> 00:25:00,830
sighted something strange back in around

499
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:05,640
1947 in the summer in Japan where he was

500
00:25:12,019 --> 00:25:08,730
night fishing one night and that was I

501
00:25:16,909 --> 00:25:12,029
believe 1947 and 2:00 or 3:00 in the

502
00:25:19,220 --> 00:25:16,919
morning he saw this greenish object

503
00:25:21,740 --> 00:25:19,230
slowly maneuvering over the Bay of

504
00:25:23,930 --> 00:25:21,750
Yokohama and he had never seen anything

505
00:25:26,930 --> 00:25:23,940
like that before in his life because he

506
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:26,940
used to do night fishing for many many

507
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:29,730
years and he knew astronomy very well he

508
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:33,210
had seen with all of us a straw Domino

509
00:25:37,310 --> 00:25:34,890
phenomenon and a meteorite

510
00:25:41,029 --> 00:25:37,320
meteors and you know what not you know

511
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:41,039
but that was the only time that he said

512
00:25:48,410 --> 00:25:45,450
he saw this greenish object and so that

513
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:48,420
was the beginning of my interest

514
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:50,970
in this subject because as I was growing

515
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:55,290
up he used to tell it about it to myself

516
00:25:59,770 --> 00:25:57,360
and my sister and my mother on the

517
00:26:04,220 --> 00:25:59,780
dinner table when I was just a small kid

518
00:26:10,270 --> 00:26:04,230
and although my mother was skeptical at

519
00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:10,280
that time in 1975 many many years later

520
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:13,710
my own mother my own skeptical mother

521
00:26:19,220 --> 00:26:16,410
claimed that she saw a typical flying

522
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:19,230
saucer during broad daylight over a

523
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:22,050
crowded railroad station in Yokohama

524
00:26:28,370 --> 00:26:25,890
Japan you know a broad daylight and so

525
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:28,380
she became a believer in the Flying

526
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:32,400
Saucer and you know so this is my

527
00:26:40,730 --> 00:26:37,170
background so now when when your dad was

528
00:26:42,830 --> 00:26:40,740
initially telling the family were not

529
00:26:46,220 --> 00:26:42,840
initially but it's time were by about

530
00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:46,230
the the UFO that he saw and he became

531
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:49,590
interested in the subject was there any

532
00:26:54,020 --> 00:26:51,810
reading material of books or anything

533
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:54,030
like that that that you know you had

534
00:26:59,930 --> 00:26:58,050
access to in Japan in that early of a

535
00:27:06,200 --> 00:26:59,940
date I mean if he had his experience in

536
00:27:09,290 --> 00:27:06,210
47 so yeah well it was during the late

537
00:27:13,910 --> 00:27:09,300
1950s mmm-hmm that I became really

538
00:27:16,580 --> 00:27:13,920
interested and in the 1961 I started

539
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:16,590
reading some magazines from the United

540
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:22,170
States such as NICAP and Apr oh and you

541
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:24,690
know all other organizations and so I

542
00:27:33,020 --> 00:27:29,130
was fairly you know up to date on what

543
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:33,030
was happening in those years but it was

544
00:27:41,090 --> 00:27:37,200
basically around 1964 that I was

545
00:27:43,370 --> 00:27:41,100
fascinated by a newspaper article that I

546
00:27:45,230 --> 00:27:43,380
really enjoy pan about the strange

547
00:27:47,930 --> 00:27:45,240
sighting that took place in the small

548
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:47,940
town in New Mexico namely the Socorro

549
00:27:54,370 --> 00:27:51,120
case of a thousand 64 and so that really

550
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:54,380
catapulted my interest further and

551
00:28:00,370 --> 00:27:57,410
coincidentally I came to New Mexico in

552
00:28:04,289 --> 00:28:00,380
1965 to

553
00:28:08,140 --> 00:28:04,299
study at a college coincidentally and so

554
00:28:10,659 --> 00:28:08,150
you know I live once again in New Mexico

555
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:10,669
right now but you know it was actually

556
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:16,210
nineteen the late 1970s that my views on

557
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:19,760
UFO started changing because in the late

558
00:28:28,620 --> 00:28:23,840
70s I started devouring books by dr.

559
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:28,630
Jacques Vallee and John Akio and I

560
00:28:35,310 --> 00:28:32,690
really was impacted by their writings

561
00:28:38,260 --> 00:28:35,320
and by their unconventional

562
00:28:42,399 --> 00:28:38,270
interpretation of this phenomenon you

563
00:28:47,649 --> 00:28:42,409
know as opposed to the so-called until

564
00:28:50,919 --> 00:28:47,659
then prevalent ET hypothesis and so even

565
00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:50,929
even in the 1980s the late 80s when I

566
00:28:58,840 --> 00:28:54,049
started getting interested in the area

567
00:29:03,520 --> 00:28:58,850
51 in 1989 and dulce also at the same

568
00:29:07,049 --> 00:29:03,530
time I was not really that much of a

569
00:29:11,340 --> 00:29:07,059
supporter of ET hypothesis so when I

570
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:11,350
studied the area 51 conspiracy I was

571
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:14,110
really I never made any statements

572
00:29:24,820 --> 00:29:20,690
associating area 51 with aliens and so I

573
00:29:28,990 --> 00:29:24,830
am still in that position in other words

574
00:29:33,820 --> 00:29:29,000
I am NOT a supporter of the nuts and

575
00:29:36,820 --> 00:29:33,830
bolts ET hypothesis even though I am

576
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:36,830
tremendously interested in the

577
00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:40,730
phenomenon itself which I believe seems

578
00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:44,809
to be real no question about it I think

579
00:29:51,149 --> 00:29:47,809
that a lot of people are probably most

580
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:51,159
familiar with your investigations in the

581
00:29:58,990 --> 00:29:56,690
area 51 area what how did you first find

582
00:30:02,680 --> 00:29:59,000
out about it and and what made you

583
00:30:04,659 --> 00:30:02,690
decide that this was some place that you

584
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:04,669
know that that you wanted to go to and

585
00:30:13,650 --> 00:30:07,490
and then try to get some closer looks at

586
00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:13,660
well actually in 1988 I was reading

587
00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:14,950
Aviation Week and space technology

588
00:30:22,590 --> 00:30:19,830
magazine and you know October issue I

589
00:30:27,150 --> 00:30:22,600
think the second week or third week I

590
00:30:31,250 --> 00:30:27,160
forgot the Aviation Week magazine on

591
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:31,260
page 51 there was an advertisement about

592
00:30:40,620 --> 00:30:34,330
some kind of a chemical or some kind of

593
00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:40,630
a you know new compound namely I would

594
00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:44,710
say stealth type you know material that

595
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:48,310
was being advertised by a moko I'm a

596
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:52,480
coal company was claiming that they have

597
00:31:01,500 --> 00:30:56,050
this tremendous thing that will change

598
00:31:06,420 --> 00:31:01,510
the direction of you know the defense

599
00:31:11,010 --> 00:31:06,430
industry and poison Italy on page 51 of

600
00:31:15,290 --> 00:31:11,020
that magazine was a full-page image of

601
00:31:19,020 --> 00:31:15,300
an alien he gray alien a full-page and

602
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:19,030
on the opposite side of namely page 50

603
00:31:25,050 --> 00:31:22,570
or 50 - I forgot was this a moko

604
00:31:26,940 --> 00:31:25,060
companies announcement that they have

605
00:31:31,530 --> 00:31:26,950
come across a new type of technology

606
00:31:33,510 --> 00:31:31,540
that would rest only change the aviation

607
00:31:38,610 --> 00:31:33,520
industry you know military aviation

608
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:38,620
industry but anyway so 1988 he began to

609
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:41,050
take tremendous interest in this topic

610
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:45,600
and coincidentally in the same year I

611
00:31:53,970 --> 00:31:50,050
had received a packet from William

612
00:31:56,430 --> 00:31:53,980
Elmore about area 51 in he's selling a

613
00:31:58,920 --> 00:31:56,440
satellite photo the image you know over

614
00:32:02,460 --> 00:31:58,930
there if if you aren't and so that was

615
00:32:07,860 --> 00:32:02,470
the beginning see and so then I got in

616
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:07,870
touch with this Bob Lazar who claimed

617
00:32:12,690 --> 00:32:09,730
that he was working on this reverse

618
00:32:16,890 --> 00:32:12,700
engineering program at southeast south

619
00:32:18,990 --> 00:32:16,900
of area 51 and this was in 1989 in when

620
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:19,000
I was listening to his shortly I mean a

621
00:32:26,410 --> 00:32:21,570
regular talk-show in

622
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:26,420
Las Vegas so somehow I got in touch with

623
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:31,170
the group that knew Bob Lazar and so I

624
00:32:39,260 --> 00:32:35,130
brought a Japanese TV crew to actually

625
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:39,270
interview mr. Lazar in Las Vegas and it

626
00:32:45,050 --> 00:32:43,290
was on a Wednesday because laws are

627
00:32:47,150 --> 00:32:45,060
claimed that on Wednesday nights they

628
00:32:50,540 --> 00:32:47,160
were testing this thing that he was

629
00:32:54,500 --> 00:32:50,550
claiming you know and so I revisited his

630
00:32:55,070 --> 00:32:54,510
house in February the 21st it was a

631
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:55,080
Wednesday

632
00:33:04,070 --> 00:32:59,760
about four hours at his house

633
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:04,080
interviewing and then he we asked him

634
00:33:09,020 --> 00:33:06,210
make me want to come with us that

635
00:33:11,540 --> 00:33:09,030
evening to this spot that he claimed

636
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:11,550
that one can see the test light but

637
00:33:17,930 --> 00:33:13,770
anyway he didn't want to go with us so

638
00:33:22,270 --> 00:33:17,940
we went the seven you know crew people

639
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:22,280
from the TV station and we did see some

640
00:33:29,180 --> 00:33:25,770
really interesting maneuvering of you

641
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:29,190
know bright light you know about three

642
00:33:36,380 --> 00:33:32,490
times in a row you know have to sum down

643
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:36,390
but you know year after year I visited

644
00:33:42,770 --> 00:33:38,730
that area and I came to realize that

645
00:33:48,370 --> 00:33:42,780
it's perhaps this is a pure American

646
00:33:53,270 --> 00:33:48,380
technology and so you know that was my

647
00:33:55,730 --> 00:33:53,280
basic conclusion that there's really

648
00:34:03,410 --> 00:33:55,740
nothing healing about area 51 and I

649
00:34:08,390 --> 00:34:03,420
still abide by my conclusion that both

650
00:34:11,630 --> 00:34:08,400
area 51 in Nevada and the alleged Dulce

651
00:34:14,750 --> 00:34:11,640
New Mexico UFO sightings and knowledge

652
00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:14,760
the claims of alien base have no basis

653
00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:18,720
to it but I am a firm believer that

654
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:20,910
there are things in this world that we

655
00:34:26,570 --> 00:34:22,800
cannot understand so I'm a firm believer

656
00:34:31,070 --> 00:34:26,580
that in this world there are things that

657
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:31,080
I consider to be some kind of para

658
00:34:38,339 --> 00:34:34,690
physical phenomenon

659
00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:38,349
which has existed for since time

660
00:34:44,339 --> 00:34:41,310
immemorial then so this is where I stand

661
00:34:47,730 --> 00:34:44,349
Nouriel just let me bring this back to a

662
00:34:51,839 --> 00:34:47,740
Bob Lazar for a second so do you think

663
00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:51,849
that he was a dupe that they actually

664
00:34:55,980 --> 00:34:54,250
showed him this so the idea would get

665
00:34:57,809 --> 00:34:55,990
out into the public consciousness that

666
00:35:01,940 --> 00:34:57,819
some of these things that were happening

667
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:01,950
at area 51 might have been

668
00:35:08,030 --> 00:35:05,050
extraterrestrial or do you think he had

669
00:35:12,359 --> 00:35:08,040
just made it up about a whole cloth I

670
00:35:16,050 --> 00:35:12,369
don't think he just made it up I think

671
00:35:19,020 --> 00:35:16,060
there was a reason and I think the first

672
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:19,030
situation that you mentioned was most

673
00:35:27,980 --> 00:35:23,250
likely because I mean let's say that

674
00:35:33,089 --> 00:35:27,990
first of all there's no tangible

675
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:33,099
physical reliable credible documentary

676
00:35:39,050 --> 00:35:35,650
evidence whatsoever that we have ever

677
00:35:41,849 --> 00:35:39,060
been visited by physical

678
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:41,859
extraterrestrial biological entities in

679
00:35:47,849 --> 00:35:44,170
any kind of physical extraterrestrial

680
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:47,859
spacecraft of any kind so far no noryeok

681
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:50,050
noryeok Kiley I feel like I'm listening

682
00:35:55,740 --> 00:35:52,089
to myself I've been saying this for

683
00:35:59,640 --> 00:35:55,750
years for years there is no evidence

684
00:36:02,040 --> 00:35:59,650
people that's right well just just to

685
00:36:04,109 --> 00:36:02,050
play the devil's advocate here now you

686
00:36:05,970 --> 00:36:04,119
say the the case that interests that

687
00:36:08,849 --> 00:36:05,980
you're the most that got you kind of

688
00:36:10,770 --> 00:36:08,859
started on this was Socorro wouldn't

689
00:36:14,250 --> 00:36:10,780
that include some sort of physical

690
00:36:16,740 --> 00:36:14,260
evidence well actually we don't still

691
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:16,750
don't know much about the Socorro

692
00:36:22,890 --> 00:36:19,210
incident even though it was investigated

693
00:36:32,339 --> 00:36:22,900
by J Allen Hynek and you know the Air

694
00:36:38,220 --> 00:36:32,349
Force and a lot of Phillips and Ted

695
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:38,230
Phillips and they've ray found metal

696
00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:41,490
that have been ablated off the landing

697
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:45,609
pad onto a rock and he took it to

698
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:47,650
Goddard Space Flight Center

699
00:36:52,380 --> 00:36:49,570
and had it analyzed he was given a

700
00:36:55,740 --> 00:36:52,390
preliminary report on the analysis

701
00:36:58,410 --> 00:36:55,750
process by a very excited scientist and

702
00:37:00,210 --> 00:36:58,420
then he was told oh it was nothing and

703
00:37:03,690 --> 00:37:00,220
he said well let me have my sample back

704
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:03,700
and they said oh we used it all and that

705
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:08,650
created a very hostile relationship with

706
00:37:11,790 --> 00:37:11,290
a person that arranged the testing for

707
00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:11,800
Ray

708
00:37:19,410 --> 00:37:16,140
and that was de call from night out

709
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:19,420
but again what bottom line is we have so

710
00:37:27,650 --> 00:37:24,130
far no single tangible universally

711
00:37:31,050 --> 00:37:27,660
accepted and I'm talking about the vast

712
00:37:32,970 --> 00:37:31,060
overwhelming overwhelming vast majority

713
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:32,980
of the world's scientists and

714
00:37:39,570 --> 00:37:36,850
astronomers engineers who are very

715
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:39,580
skeptical and I agree with them who are

716
00:37:45,810 --> 00:37:43,570
skeptical about us ever being visited by

717
00:37:48,540 --> 00:37:45,820
physical extraterrestrial entities in

718
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:48,550
the physical crafts of any kind so based

719
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:54,250
upon this that this opinion I'm very

720
00:38:02,240 --> 00:37:59,680
skeptical about even about sapporo well

721
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:02,250
I'm not skeptical about the incident but

722
00:38:10,070 --> 00:38:05,530
I'm skeptical that it had anything to do

723
00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:10,080
with you know a physical aliens and so

724
00:38:17,610 --> 00:38:12,880
you know it's so important for me to

725
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:17,620
define the terminology and so this is

726
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:20,170
what I've been doing recently is to

727
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:24,130
really define the various terminologies

728
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:29,680
being used in the UFO community which is

729
00:38:38,910 --> 00:38:34,170
you know it's just it's so important and

730
00:38:42,330 --> 00:38:38,920
what is real and you know is for example

731
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:42,340
our abductions real yeah well I can't

732
00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:45,610
say it's real to me but it could be real

733
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:49,150
to the so-called experiences so you know

734
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:52,090
as I told you in the beginning I do

735
00:38:59,450 --> 00:38:54,970
believe that in this world there is a

736
00:39:00,660 --> 00:38:59,460
phenomenon that we still don't know that

737
00:39:04,789 --> 00:39:00,670
cannot

738
00:39:09,079 --> 00:39:04,799
be answered at this time by our physical

739
00:39:13,859 --> 00:39:09,089
you know scientific procedures and so

740
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:13,869
that's where I stand right now and you

741
00:39:19,170 --> 00:39:16,510
know so you know it's important for me

742
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:19,180
to define these things you know for

743
00:39:24,329 --> 00:39:21,970
example are we being visited by aliens

744
00:39:26,510 --> 00:39:24,339
and you know what's the definition of

745
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:26,520
alien you know are we talking about

746
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:29,440
sentient physical extraterrestrial

747
00:39:35,670 --> 00:39:32,410
biological entities which most people

748
00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:35,680
who are associate aliens with but you

749
00:39:43,559 --> 00:39:39,520
know we just don't know yet

750
00:39:45,660 --> 00:39:43,569
now the overwhelming vast majority of

751
00:39:49,079 --> 00:39:45,670
the world's respected scientists in the

752
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:49,089
strongest are of the opinion that there

753
00:39:55,039 --> 00:39:52,450
probably are intelligent civilizations

754
00:39:58,530 --> 00:39:55,049
somewhere in this universe but

755
00:40:01,829 --> 00:39:58,540
unfortunately UFO phenomena does not

756
00:40:09,530 --> 00:40:01,839
seem to be you know conclusive evidence

757
00:40:13,289 --> 00:40:09,540
of et visitations at all you know and so

758
00:40:16,980 --> 00:40:13,299
going back to the definitions you know

759
00:40:19,170 --> 00:40:16,990
are we the only sentient intelligent

760
00:40:23,190 --> 00:40:19,180
physical biological entities in this

761
00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:23,200
entire cosmos and the answer is still we

762
00:40:29,819 --> 00:40:25,119
just do not know yet and this is the

763
00:40:32,309 --> 00:40:29,829
best answer that we can give for now and

764
00:40:34,190 --> 00:40:32,319
we just don't know it yet it's the only

765
00:40:38,030 --> 00:40:34,200
honest answer

766
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:38,040
Nouriel what would you say about the

767
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:41,970
possibility that we were visited in

768
00:40:47,069 --> 00:40:44,079
historical times I mean there are a lot

769
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:47,079
of reports even putting the ancient

770
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:49,210
astronaut theory aside there there are

771
00:40:55,849 --> 00:40:53,410
of course a lot of reports of strange

772
00:40:59,549 --> 00:40:55,859
things in the sky and on the ground

773
00:41:01,260 --> 00:40:59,559
going throughout history no question

774
00:41:03,150 --> 00:41:01,270
about it you know it's from time

775
00:41:05,390 --> 00:41:03,160
immemorial people have been seeing

776
00:41:07,530 --> 00:41:05,400
strange things even in the Middle Ages

777
00:41:10,940 --> 00:41:07,540
actually people have claimed to have

778
00:41:14,109 --> 00:41:10,950
seen you know shields that were oh yeah

779
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:14,119
yeah and so on and you know even in the

780
00:41:21,890 --> 00:41:17,490
1700 1800 people reported seeing strange

781
00:41:24,380 --> 00:41:21,900
objects that appear to be huge even some

782
00:41:26,770 --> 00:41:24,390
kind of crude looking airships and you

783
00:41:29,870 --> 00:41:26,780
know we're a [\h__\h] wasn't there you know

784
00:41:33,079 --> 00:41:29,880
but later on actual airships and other

785
00:41:36,859 --> 00:41:33,089
dirigible zs-- were built by the US and

786
00:41:38,809 --> 00:41:36,869
then also in the early 1890s when the US

787
00:41:42,589 --> 00:41:38,819
was testing your prototypes of the

788
00:41:44,839 --> 00:41:42,599
stealth aircraft coincidentally there

789
00:41:47,690 --> 00:41:44,849
were many reports of humongous flying

790
00:41:50,089 --> 00:41:47,700
triangular craft of the East Coast which

791
00:41:52,670 --> 00:41:50,099
had nothing to do with the prototypes

792
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:52,680
being tested by the US Air Force right

793
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:55,410
there no we're talking about humongous

794
00:41:59,750 --> 00:41:58,079
triangular craft sometimes reported to

795
00:42:02,599 --> 00:41:59,760
be three or four times the size of a

796
00:42:05,780 --> 00:42:02,609
football field hovering absolutely

797
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:05,790
silently in the night skies and they

798
00:42:11,770 --> 00:42:08,160
sure did not belong to their US Air

799
00:42:14,599 --> 00:42:11,780
Force and so I'm saying that this

800
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:14,609
sightings of strange phenomenon is not

801
00:42:22,339 --> 00:42:17,609
it not new but the bottom line is what

802
00:42:30,380 --> 00:42:22,349
are they then you know I mean so that is

803
00:42:32,329 --> 00:42:30,390
the situation where I am in so well you

804
00:42:34,819 --> 00:42:32,339
know a lot of people talk about nozzle

805
00:42:39,530 --> 00:42:34,829
and other things but you know to me

806
00:42:42,740 --> 00:42:39,540
there's not one case in the ufology that

807
00:42:44,660 --> 00:42:42,750
convinces me that mm-hmm

808
00:42:46,789 --> 00:42:44,670
we have been visited physically by

809
00:42:50,809 --> 00:42:46,799
physical aliens in physical spacecraft

810
00:42:55,309 --> 00:42:50,819
including Rob Lowe not even one case and

811
00:42:59,589 --> 00:42:55,319
that's my opinion based on my you know

812
00:43:03,440 --> 00:42:59,599
continuous research since 1961 and so

813
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:03,450
what what can what what can venture the

814
00:43:10,930 --> 00:43:05,690
only thing that will convince is like

815
00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:10,940
most people say unfortunately a

816
00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:13,609
representative from an extraterrestrial

817
00:43:27,170 --> 00:43:20,089
physical civilization contacting the

818
00:43:31,010 --> 00:43:27,180
leaders our leaders I hate to say this

819
00:43:35,380 --> 00:43:31,020
but don't you watch the news what alien

820
00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:45,170
situation imagine imagine if Trump did

821
00:43:49,849 --> 00:43:47,280
the State of the Union address and then

822
00:43:54,319 --> 00:43:49,859
and he pulled off this mask and he was

823
00:43:56,210 --> 00:43:54,329
like as Jillian would centralize and the

824
00:44:03,770 --> 00:43:56,220
country would think there was some PR

825
00:44:11,299 --> 00:44:03,780
stunt yeah hearsay his ratings would

826
00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:11,309
only go down another 1% yeah but most

827
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:14,880
convincing scenario would be not

828
00:44:19,549 --> 00:44:16,770
necessarily at White House though there

829
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:19,559
are many many public's humongous public

830
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:22,410
squares in the world and you know if all

831
00:44:27,410 --> 00:44:24,960
the television networks are on the world

832
00:44:30,170 --> 00:44:27,420
simultaneously can broadcast and the

833
00:44:32,839 --> 00:44:30,180
actual contact landing well you know

834
00:44:36,589 --> 00:44:32,849
that's a different story see and we

835
00:44:39,799 --> 00:44:36,599
haven't had that thing so it could be

836
00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:39,809
the like the author see Clark childhoods

837
00:44:45,410 --> 00:44:42,960
end scenario where you had Independence

838
00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:45,420
Day we had massive motherships parked

839
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:47,520
over the world's great cities for a

840
00:44:55,700 --> 00:44:52,410
generation that would convince me yeah

841
00:44:57,559 --> 00:44:55,710
that's the only thing that convinced us

842
00:45:02,140 --> 00:44:57,569
but the other thing about this whole

843
00:45:05,359 --> 00:45:02,150
phenomenon is the high strangeness of

844
00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:05,369
this phenomenon in which I have

845
00:45:14,299 --> 00:45:10,400
mentioned that this phenomenon does not

846
00:45:17,660 --> 00:45:14,309
seem to be capable of surviving in our

847
00:45:19,460 --> 00:45:17,670
dimension physical dimension for no more

848
00:45:23,380 --> 00:45:19,470
than a few seconds at a time or a few

849
00:45:26,329 --> 00:45:23,390
minutes at a time they seem to

850
00:45:28,670 --> 00:45:26,339
dematerialize and that's the best

851
00:45:31,220 --> 00:45:28,680
description I can give about this

852
00:45:33,849 --> 00:45:31,230
phenomenon it's a phenomenon that can

853
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:33,859
apparently materialize and dematerialize

854
00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:36,130
at will and

855
00:45:44,610 --> 00:45:42,160
you know but yet it is incapable of its

856
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:44,620
transitory remaining in the same place

857
00:45:51,210 --> 00:45:47,050
where more than a few seconds minutes

858
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:51,220
well I call them a singular phenomena I

859
00:45:56,550 --> 00:45:54,640
mean one one sighting or one apparition

860
00:45:59,910 --> 00:45:56,560
doesn't necessarily have to have

861
00:46:03,330 --> 00:45:59,920
anything to do with any other apparition

862
00:46:05,550 --> 00:46:03,340
I mean it's a it's it's as far as I'm

863
00:46:07,830 --> 00:46:05,560
concerned it's all singular and possibly

864
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:07,840
not they're not related so how can you

865
00:46:13,290 --> 00:46:11,290
how can you come up with a pattern well

866
00:46:16,140 --> 00:46:13,300
there's no pattern as you said yeah

867
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:16,150
there's no you know we're not we're not

868
00:46:20,250 --> 00:46:18,370
also also we're forgetting the

869
00:46:23,490 --> 00:46:20,260
possibility that there is an

870
00:46:27,180 --> 00:46:23,500
interrelated connection between

871
00:46:29,430 --> 00:46:27,190
divergent types of so-called paranormal

872
00:46:31,470 --> 00:46:29,440
phenomena that aren't on the surface

873
00:46:35,070 --> 00:46:31,480
don't do not appear to be connected or

874
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:35,080
or in any way shape or form have any

875
00:46:40,700 --> 00:46:37,810
sort of in a relationship but I have

876
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:40,710
come to the conclusion that there is a

877
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:43,210
interconnectedness between divergent

878
00:46:49,020 --> 00:46:46,480
phenomena and that's why when you know

879
00:46:51,270 --> 00:46:49,030
Bigfoot shows up during a UFO wave and

880
00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:51,280
all of a sudden the haunted site goes

881
00:47:00,810 --> 00:46:54,640
crazy there seems to be some sort of

882
00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:00,820
underlying interconnectedness well there

883
00:47:05,310 --> 00:47:02,830
certainly there certainly are what they

884
00:47:08,010 --> 00:47:05,320
call the what we have defined as window

885
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:08,020
areas I mean an Oreo I mean even if

886
00:47:13,170 --> 00:47:09,970
there's nothing strange going on seven

887
00:47:17,100 --> 00:47:13,180
levels underneath Dulcy that whole area

888
00:47:21,570 --> 00:47:17,110
there the Native American territory has

889
00:47:23,820 --> 00:47:21,580
had a preponderance of a UFO and strange

890
00:47:26,460 --> 00:47:23,830
activity in fact I know there are

891
00:47:29,550 --> 00:47:26,470
members of the Navajo police who have

892
00:47:31,140 --> 00:47:29,560
their own paranormal group all right Tim

893
00:47:32,550 --> 00:47:31,150
let me let me interrupt you here because

894
00:47:34,650 --> 00:47:32,560
we have to go to our top of the hour

895
00:47:37,740 --> 00:47:34,660
break when we come back we'll continue

896
00:47:45,579 --> 00:47:37,750
our conversation about strange events on

897
00:47:52,540 --> 00:47:50,089
explore the bazaars or e-ticket ride

898
00:47:55,819 --> 00:47:52,550
into the world of the paranormal

899
00:48:00,130 --> 00:47:55,829
strap yourself in as we traverse the

900
00:48:03,250 --> 00:48:00,140
universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

901
00:48:05,630 --> 00:48:03,260
ghosts Lost Worlds

902
00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:05,640
cryptozoology as well as other

903
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:09,510
dimensions it's time to take back the

904
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:14,640
night now your electrifying hosts of

905
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:17,730
exploring the bizarre Timothy Begley and

906
00:48:26,270 --> 00:48:23,730
team sports welcome back to the second

907
00:48:28,430 --> 00:48:26,280
hour of exploring the bizarre our guests

908
00:48:32,859 --> 00:48:28,440
tonight are Chris O'Brien and Oreo

909
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:32,869
Hayakawa so Chris why don't you tell us

910
00:48:41,180 --> 00:48:37,530
how your your your pet project your the

911
00:48:44,420 --> 00:48:41,190
the project that you love and have been

912
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:44,430
working on for so long yeah that yeah

913
00:48:52,250 --> 00:48:49,200
the the San Luis Valley a camera project

914
00:48:54,970 --> 00:48:52,260
what how's that going what's up with

915
00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:54,980
that currently well you know the the

916
00:49:03,290 --> 00:48:58,319
actual San Luis Valley camera project

917
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:03,300
started with a dream and basically back

918
00:49:07,790 --> 00:49:06,450
in the early 90s I thought wouldn't it

919
00:49:10,940 --> 00:49:07,800
be cool if we could set up a

920
00:49:14,210 --> 00:49:10,950
triangulated a camera array that was

921
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:14,220
connected somehow and was able to to

922
00:49:22,339 --> 00:49:18,569
gain three unique perspectives on a

923
00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:22,349
single you know UEFA logical event and

924
00:49:26,930 --> 00:49:25,200
of course if you have two cameras or

925
00:49:28,670 --> 00:49:26,940
more you're going to be able to

926
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:28,680
determine a lot more than a single

927
00:49:33,140 --> 00:49:30,480
camera you're going to be able to

928
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:33,150
determine distance from the camera

929
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:40,770
altitude azimuth speed size luminance at

930
00:49:46,270 --> 00:49:43,050
the actual trajectory of how it

931
00:49:49,010 --> 00:49:46,280
maneuvers in three-dimensional space and

932
00:49:52,010 --> 00:49:49,020
back when I was thinking about this and

933
00:49:54,350 --> 00:49:52,020
the you know early to mid 90s I tried to

934
00:49:56,420 --> 00:49:54,360
cost it out and even if it was even

935
00:49:58,700 --> 00:49:56,430
possible to do it would have been many

936
00:50:02,500 --> 00:49:58,710
hundreds of thousands of dollars worth a

937
00:50:05,870 --> 00:50:02,510
year well we live in a wonderful

938
00:50:09,950 --> 00:50:05,880
high-tech 21st century now and the cost

939
00:50:13,730 --> 00:50:09,960
of this particular vision and and and

940
00:50:15,230 --> 00:50:13,740
dream has come down considerably and for

941
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:15,240
the past 12 years I've been working with

942
00:50:25,130 --> 00:50:20,640
a team of ex you know kind of government

943
00:50:28,190 --> 00:50:25,140
guys and physicists and amateur

944
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:28,200
astronomers and engineers and computer

945
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:31,170
scientists and we have finally come up

946
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:34,050
with a a very workable and affordable

947
00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:37,200
system called the UFO data acquisition

948
00:50:43,540 --> 00:50:41,040
system UFO desk and what we've done is

949
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:43,550
we've we've gone ahead and we've we've

950
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:47,370
we put gear into the San Luis Valley for

951
00:50:53,390 --> 00:50:50,730
a very first location ultimately what we

952
00:50:56,300 --> 00:50:53,400
want to do is have these triangulated

953
00:50:59,780 --> 00:50:56,310
systems that feature not only cameras

954
00:51:01,660 --> 00:50:59,790
but recording magnetometers recording

955
00:51:06,850 --> 00:51:01,670
accelerometers with grab otama ters

956
00:51:10,070 --> 00:51:06,860
gravimeters and a acoustic e.l.f and

957
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:10,080
very low frequency acoustic signature

958
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:13,370
recordings and various types of

959
00:51:22,700 --> 00:51:15,530
scientific measuring equipment

960
00:51:26,510 --> 00:51:22,710
everything from being tied into it's

961
00:51:28,660 --> 00:51:26,520
called flightradar24 so we can factor

962
00:51:32,930 --> 00:51:28,670
out any transplanted commercial flights

963
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:32,940
the bolide of nasa bolide Alert network

964
00:51:40,310 --> 00:51:37,200
and then also we want to have complete

965
00:51:43,370 --> 00:51:40,320
you know weather information at the time

966
00:51:45,170 --> 00:51:43,380
of a particular event that we record so

967
00:51:47,420 --> 00:51:45,180
what we're going to do is have three or

968
00:51:50,780 --> 00:51:47,430
four and in the case of the San Luis

969
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:50,790
Valley cameras and also one or two of

970
00:51:57,170 --> 00:51:54,240
these mmm we call them MSD I use in

971
00:51:59,330 --> 00:51:57,180
other words our multi sensor data

972
00:52:01,280 --> 00:51:59,340
acquisition units they have the

973
00:52:02,650 --> 00:52:01,290
recording gravity Amador magnetometer

974
00:52:06,290 --> 00:52:02,660
and the rest of these scientific

975
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:06,300
instruments in in a very affordable

976
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:07,650
package

977
00:52:15,140 --> 00:52:11,330
and so once you have an event and these

978
00:52:18,170 --> 00:52:15,150
cameras and sensors are able to

979
00:52:21,830 --> 00:52:18,180
triangulate and record multiple

980
00:52:24,850 --> 00:52:21,840
recordings of data of a single event you

981
00:52:27,350 --> 00:52:24,860
have the kind of information that

982
00:52:30,140 --> 00:52:27,360
scientists and astronomers the people

983
00:52:32,450 --> 00:52:30,150
that norio was talking about would love

984
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:32,460
to get sink their teeth into and say

985
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:35,370
okay you think you got something unusual

986
00:52:42,890 --> 00:52:37,770
you think you got something you know

987
00:52:44,870 --> 00:52:42,900
alien or you know hi hi strange okay

988
00:52:48,350 --> 00:52:44,880
let's see let's uh let's look at the

989
00:52:50,570 --> 00:52:48,360
data and let's look at the way that

990
00:52:52,700 --> 00:52:50,580
you've you've secured your evidence

991
00:52:55,130 --> 00:52:52,710
chain that's all you've done the proper

992
00:52:59,180 --> 00:52:55,140
proper procedures to make sure that the

993
00:53:01,100 --> 00:52:59,190
data is is is pristine and you know

994
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:01,110
let's take a look at it and get peer

995
00:53:05,390 --> 00:53:03,810
review and heck if we come up with

996
00:53:07,090 --> 00:53:05,400
something that's you know fairly

997
00:53:09,710 --> 00:53:07,100
interesting we might even be able to

998
00:53:12,770 --> 00:53:09,720
actually publish a scientific paper

999
00:53:16,340 --> 00:53:12,780
wouldn't that be nice this is this is

1000
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:16,350
the next step that ufology needs to take

1001
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:18,690
I do not allow myself to be called a

1002
00:53:24,940 --> 00:53:21,650
ufologist you call me anything but

1003
00:53:28,430 --> 00:53:24,950
ufology is an embarrassment and

1004
00:53:31,730 --> 00:53:28,440
unfortunately this field is its own

1005
00:53:34,370 --> 00:53:31,740
worst enemy it is fractious it is ego

1006
00:53:37,940 --> 00:53:34,380
driven it's filled with charlatans and

1007
00:53:39,830 --> 00:53:37,950
hoaxes and and and and pure crap as far

1008
00:53:43,550 --> 00:53:39,840
as I'm concerned and I don't want to be

1009
00:53:47,510 --> 00:53:43,560
associated with it but if I was gonna do

1010
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:47,520
it right this the UFO dap project would

1011
00:53:53,660 --> 00:53:50,130
be how I would do it so I'm gonna show

1012
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:53,670
the field with my team that includes a

1013
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:56,010
guy that was you know accepted into

1014
00:54:04,400 --> 00:53:59,040
Oxford as a as a theoretical physicist

1015
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:04,410
at 16 and became an engineer at Cisco a

1016
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:07,290
guy that helped acquire you know did the

1017
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:11,010
contract law for exotic materials for

1018
00:54:16,010 --> 00:54:13,290
the aerospace industry a guy that worked

1019
00:54:18,340 --> 00:54:16,020
for Disney as an crack computer

1020
00:54:21,019 --> 00:54:18,350
scientific whiz an amateur astronomer

1021
00:54:23,390 --> 00:54:21,029
and some very famous names that are

1022
00:54:27,319 --> 00:54:23,400
kind of helping out with some advice on

1023
00:54:31,609 --> 00:54:27,329
the side this is how you follow G needs

1024
00:54:35,630 --> 00:54:31,619
to drag its sorry ass forward in a very

1025
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:35,640
productive a very and how would I put

1026
00:54:41,870 --> 00:54:39,359
this politely in an expedient way that

1027
00:54:44,059 --> 00:54:41,880
actually might have a chance this

1028
00:54:46,519 --> 00:54:44,069
approach might have a chance to be taken

1029
00:54:48,559 --> 00:54:46,529
seriously by academia in the scientific

1030
00:54:51,979 --> 00:54:48,569
community the San Luis Valley is the

1031
00:54:53,809 --> 00:54:51,989
first location we have a number of teams

1032
00:54:55,999 --> 00:54:53,819
around the world that are interested in

1033
00:54:59,479 --> 00:54:56,009
getting involved we have targeting

1034
00:55:01,880 --> 00:54:59,489
software that automatically follows

1035
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:01,890
objects in the air with a bounding box

1036
00:55:07,489 --> 00:55:04,650
just like targeting software for a jet

1037
00:55:09,979 --> 00:55:07,499
fighter all this stuff is tied together

1038
00:55:12,169 --> 00:55:09,989
on the internet when when an event

1039
00:55:15,049 --> 00:55:12,179
happens the cameras were all sent

1040
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:15,059
quadrant data they also whirl around and

1041
00:55:20,779 --> 00:55:17,729
zoom in on the object this is all done

1042
00:55:22,489 --> 00:55:20,789
turnkey it's automatic the software's

1043
00:55:24,319 --> 00:55:22,499
designed

1044
00:55:26,499 --> 00:55:24,329
we're gonna have a price list we're

1045
00:55:28,939 --> 00:55:26,509
gonna have three different levels of

1046
00:55:31,299 --> 00:55:28,949
packages that people who want to put

1047
00:55:34,579 --> 00:55:31,309
these packages in their their particular

1048
00:55:37,579 --> 00:55:34,589
location they can they can call up and

1049
00:55:39,140 --> 00:55:37,589
for as little as a grand can can you

1050
00:55:40,939 --> 00:55:39,150
know I'm not exactly sure the price

1051
00:55:43,669 --> 00:55:40,949
points right now but I think the lowest

1052
00:55:45,319 --> 00:55:43,679
price point will be about a thousand

1053
00:55:49,759 --> 00:55:45,329
dollars that you can have a triangulated

1054
00:55:52,099 --> 00:55:49,769
scientific you know actual monitoring

1055
00:55:53,659 --> 00:55:52,109
system and then the type of system that

1056
00:55:58,009 --> 00:55:53,669
we're designing you can do for about

1057
00:55:59,839 --> 00:55:58,019
twenty five hundred now we're talking at

1058
00:56:04,130 --> 00:55:59,849
Chris how long has this been set up and

1059
00:56:07,130 --> 00:56:04,140
has anything appeared we have had a

1060
00:56:08,479 --> 00:56:07,140
couple of interesting events I have not

1061
00:56:09,620 --> 00:56:08,489
personally seen them because I don't

1062
00:56:12,219 --> 00:56:09,630
have a PC

1063
00:56:16,219 --> 00:56:12,229
I need a PC to be able to tune into the

1064
00:56:18,499 --> 00:56:16,229
I'm a Mac guy and I'm not really

1065
00:56:21,069 --> 00:56:18,509
involved in in the you know right now

1066
00:56:23,479 --> 00:56:21,079
and into tomorrow tree in the system

1067
00:56:25,669 --> 00:56:23,489
we're working the bugs out we've just

1068
00:56:28,630 --> 00:56:25,679
been up a few months we're working the

1069
00:56:31,309 --> 00:56:28,640
bugs out we're getting the triangulation

1070
00:56:33,919 --> 00:56:31,319
algorithms and everything all dialed in

1071
00:56:35,260 --> 00:56:33,929
and in tight but we have had a couple of

1072
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:35,270
very interesting event

1073
00:56:38,350 --> 00:56:37,760
so you're kind of bait your beta testing

1074
00:56:40,870 --> 00:56:38,360
right now

1075
00:56:45,250 --> 00:56:40,880
well yeah we're we've well we've been

1076
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:45,260
beta testing on and off for since 2010

1077
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:49,370
but we have the you know the the detect

1078
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:52,490
motion motion tracking and you know

1079
00:56:58,840 --> 00:56:54,770
record on motion and the triangulation

1080
00:57:01,270 --> 00:56:58,850
software all that's completed that's all

1081
00:57:04,660 --> 00:57:01,280
been written all the ten thousand lines

1082
00:57:07,060 --> 00:57:04,670
of code and I think five thousand hours

1083
00:57:09,550 --> 00:57:07,070
of development work by our engineer

1084
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:09,560
Ronald has all been done and now we're

1085
00:57:14,380 --> 00:57:11,810
actually field testing everything beta

1086
00:57:19,270 --> 00:57:14,390
testing I think we're beyond that we're

1087
00:57:22,390 --> 00:57:19,280
actually field testing now this is the

1088
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:22,400
obvious next step forward for scientific

1089
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:26,810
ufology no more trying to drive the cars

1090
00:57:30,910 --> 00:57:29,090
ufology forward by looking in the

1091
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:30,920
rearview mirror and data crunching

1092
00:57:38,850 --> 00:57:34,130
forget that let's go ahead and and be

1093
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:38,860
proactive let's have this stuff you know

1094
00:57:44,970 --> 00:57:42,410
let's monitor a hotspot areas and gain

1095
00:57:48,580 --> 00:57:44,980
the kind of data from real time events

1096
00:57:50,970 --> 00:57:48,590
in a way that will be taken seriously by

1097
00:57:53,530 --> 00:57:50,980
the scientific and academic communities

1098
00:57:55,630 --> 00:57:53,540
are they gonna accept what would they

1099
00:57:56,860 --> 00:57:55,640
you you think it would ever get to the

1100
00:57:57,580 --> 00:57:56,870
point where they would accept any of

1101
00:58:00,580 --> 00:57:57,590
this now

1102
00:58:03,070 --> 00:58:00,590
yes absolutely no question I I don't

1103
00:58:04,750 --> 00:58:03,080
know it's it's been so I was going to

1104
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:04,760
say hit or miss but it hasn't even been

1105
00:58:10,450 --> 00:58:08,570
hit in the in the past no this has never

1106
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:10,460
been done this is history this is

1107
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:12,650
history we're making history here and if

1108
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:14,930
we capture a real event like some of the

1109
00:58:20,740 --> 00:58:17,090
events I personally have seen in the San

1110
00:58:22,620 --> 00:58:20,750
Luis Valley it's a game changer and what

1111
00:58:25,630 --> 00:58:22,630
have you seen

1112
00:58:28,690 --> 00:58:25,640
come on to me anything that you could

1113
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:28,700
possibly imagine all kinds of herbs from

1114
00:58:33,820 --> 00:58:31,970
you know bright riveting extremely

1115
00:58:36,910 --> 00:58:33,830
bright red orbs that are probably the

1116
00:58:40,060 --> 00:58:36,920
size of a baseball flying next to my car

1117
00:58:41,740 --> 00:58:40,070
to scout ships flying 150 feet away and

1118
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:41,750
broad daylight scooting out over the

1119
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:44,690
weir for no valley like a like a lure

1120
00:58:48,020 --> 00:58:46,850
being reeled in quickly on a fishing

1121
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:48,030
pole

1122
00:58:54,770 --> 00:58:52,290
12-foot object huge well in this case it

1123
00:58:56,180 --> 00:58:54,780
was a triangular was rectangular object

1124
00:59:00,350 --> 00:58:56,190
that blotted out you know the whole

1125
00:59:01,580 --> 00:59:00,360
Milky Way at one point I you know I

1126
00:59:04,910 --> 00:59:01,590
wouldn't know where to begin

1127
00:59:06,830 --> 00:59:04,920
instruction you know orbs I had an orb

1128
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:06,840
that went right down my street at five

1129
00:59:11,300 --> 00:59:08,850
in the morning when I was out having a

1130
00:59:14,540 --> 00:59:11,310
smoke it was maybe a hundred feet away

1131
00:59:16,220 --> 00:59:14,550
ninety feet four foot kind of had

1132
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:16,230
terrain following it was going up and

1133
00:59:24,020 --> 00:59:19,200
down over the over the contours of the

1134
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:24,030
road and the terrain you know that's why

1135
00:59:30,110 --> 00:59:25,920
I write books man I've all the stuffs in

1136
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:30,120
my book so yeah in the cases where

1137
00:59:36,740 --> 00:59:32,010
you've seen this thing have you had

1138
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:36,750
multiple witnesses yeah tons of tons of

1139
00:59:41,270 --> 00:59:39,930
events with multiple witnesses including

1140
00:59:44,390 --> 00:59:41,280
the yellow helicopter which is my

1141
00:59:49,550 --> 00:59:44,400
favorite which it was not a UFO well in

1142
00:59:58,940 --> 00:59:49,560
a way it was a UFO but it thank God I

1143
01:00:00,860 --> 00:59:58,950
had witnesses on that one I will many

1144
01:00:03,350 --> 01:00:00,870
people that know my work or wear this

1145
01:00:06,190 --> 01:00:03,360
this is a case that really that really

1146
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:06,200
grabbed me and and made me absolutely

1147
01:00:11,630 --> 01:00:09,450
you know hooked for life I went out to

1148
01:00:14,390 --> 01:00:11,640
investigate my very first cattle

1149
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:14,400
mutilation case it happened 13 years

1150
01:00:20,450 --> 01:00:17,730
before but I was given photographs by at

1151
01:00:22,090 --> 01:00:20,460
my county sheriff and this was the ranch

1152
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:22,100
closest to me so I went out there and

1153
01:00:27,620 --> 01:00:24,960
interviewed them yeah this is in January

1154
01:00:30,410 --> 01:00:27,630
19 and in the case you know the

1155
01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:30,420
mutilation occurred in June of 1980 and

1156
01:00:34,010 --> 01:00:32,160
so I'm interviewing them and they said

1157
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:34,020
yeah we were sitting around dinner and

1158
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:35,490
we heard this helicopter fly right over

1159
01:00:40,010 --> 01:00:38,010
our house and it seemed to kind of come

1160
01:00:42,050 --> 01:00:40,020
down all the way at the very southern

1161
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:42,060
end of our ranch well you know we didn't

1162
01:00:46,850 --> 01:00:44,400
really think anything over then and then

1163
01:00:49,610 --> 01:00:46,860
you know we finished dinner and then we

1164
01:00:52,370 --> 01:00:49,620
heard the things start up then we ran

1165
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:52,380
outside in it it flew up out of our past

1166
01:00:55,700 --> 01:00:54,090
year or mile south of us and then flew

1167
01:00:59,690 --> 01:00:55,710
right over our house like 50 feet over

1168
01:01:01,860 --> 01:00:59,700
our house but it was a mustard yellow no

1169
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:01,870
markings except for the color

1170
01:01:07,890 --> 01:01:05,170
and it was a 1950 you age 47 it was one

1171
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:07,900
of those whirlybirds like on mash the TV

1172
01:01:11,310 --> 01:01:09,850
show mash and you know flew right over

1173
01:01:13,290 --> 01:01:11,320
our house and went back in the other

1174
01:01:15,330 --> 01:01:13,300
direction you know back where it came

1175
01:01:16,050 --> 01:01:15,340
from and so we thought wow that's kind

1176
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:16,060
of weird

1177
01:01:20,490 --> 01:01:19,330
and it looks like an antique just flown

1178
01:01:22,500 --> 01:01:20,500
over their house so they go out in their

1179
01:01:25,710 --> 01:01:22,510
pasture the next morning and their

1180
01:01:28,590 --> 01:01:25,720
prized seed bowl you know $10,000 seed

1181
01:01:30,930 --> 01:01:28,600
bowl is dead mutilated in their pasture

1182
01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:30,940
and so they call every airport every

1183
01:01:35,070 --> 01:01:34,240
mechanic you know anybody would have any

1184
01:01:38,460 --> 01:01:35,080
possible

1185
01:01:41,010 --> 01:01:38,470
you know we had leg up on who owned this

1186
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:41,020
this weird yellow helicopter this

1187
01:01:47,850 --> 01:01:42,730
antique and they couldn't find anybody

1188
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:47,860
they would have to have people Z you

1189
01:01:51,870 --> 01:01:49,810
know you must have you know seen

1190
01:01:54,270 --> 01:01:51,880
something else and I said no we know we

1191
01:01:56,820 --> 01:01:54,280
saw and so I'm out there 13 years later

1192
01:01:58,950 --> 01:01:56,830
interviewing them and so I'd go home and

1193
01:02:00,930 --> 01:01:58,960
the next morning I'm at my table typing

1194
01:02:03,780 --> 01:02:00,940
up my notes typing this is before I had

1195
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:03,790
a computer and I hear this to teaching I

1196
01:02:16,740 --> 01:02:06,570
look out and right over my house is a

1197
01:02:21,030 --> 01:02:16,750
mustard yellow uhu age 47 it heard you

1198
01:02:24,140 --> 01:02:21,040
thinking about it that's what I would

1199
01:02:28,140 --> 01:02:24,150
say I mean are we talking about

1200
01:02:28,860 --> 01:02:28,150
mind-reading here I don't know but let's

1201
01:02:31,980 --> 01:02:28,870
put it this way

1202
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:31,990
from that moment on and like Norio said

1203
01:02:37,290 --> 01:02:33,490
we're we're dealing with something

1204
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:37,300
that's way more bizarre than simple

1205
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:40,210
aliens woman well that's my kind of

1206
01:02:46,620 --> 01:02:43,810
similar to my long very lengthy list of

1207
01:02:49,140 --> 01:02:46,630
synchronicities and and we've talked

1208
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:49,150
about these on on the on the show we're

1209
01:02:53,820 --> 01:02:50,770
not just talking about you know waking

1210
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:53,830
up and seeing four four four on the you

1211
01:02:59,100 --> 01:02:56,770
know or or say on the you know alarm or

1212
01:03:00,810 --> 01:02:59,110
thinking you're somebody that the and

1213
01:03:03,210 --> 01:03:00,820
they you run into them on the street or

1214
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:03,220
they call the next day we're talking

1215
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:06,850
about things that have to be scripted

1216
01:03:11,580 --> 01:03:08,770
they kill you know you know the story

1217
01:03:13,770 --> 01:03:11,590
bear rabbit right bear rabbit and the

1218
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:13,780
tar-baby I did that's where I kiss it's

1219
01:03:21,450 --> 01:03:15,250
our baby in a

1220
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:21,460
not to my face I changed my life that

1221
01:03:26,430 --> 01:03:24,370
was I mean that was like that big

1222
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:26,440
saltwater hook and it's been tearing on

1223
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:29,410
my cheek ever since and it's never

1224
01:03:35,190 --> 01:03:32,290
appeared since then yeah it appeared one

1225
01:03:40,020 --> 01:03:35,200
time following an army truck up highway

1226
01:03:42,750 --> 01:03:40,030
17 the following spring hmm and no no

1227
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:42,760
markings on it that you can see no and

1228
01:03:47,250 --> 01:03:44,890
boy I called every airport I called

1229
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:47,260
every mechanic every rental place the

1230
01:03:52,110 --> 01:03:49,570
FAA the Air National Guard

1231
01:03:54,450 --> 01:03:52,120
I called anybody they had anything to do

1232
01:04:00,570 --> 01:03:54,460
with aviation and they all laughed at me

1233
01:04:03,380 --> 01:04:00,580
i doesn't it doesn't seem impossible

1234
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:03,390
that somebody wouldn't have a you know a

1235
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:05,170
helicopter I mean people have all kinds

1236
01:04:12,030 --> 01:04:07,930
of planes and and and things and they're

1237
01:04:14,910 --> 01:04:12,040
not necessarily ancient 90 miles in the

1238
01:04:17,670 --> 01:04:14,920
airport was 60 miles away that's 100

1239
01:04:19,530 --> 01:04:17,680
miles around yeah well somebody's got it

1240
01:04:21,810 --> 01:04:19,540
in there in their barn somewhere I would

1241
01:04:24,450 --> 01:04:21,820
wish I don't know or maybe don't have to

1242
01:04:26,460 --> 01:04:24,460
be registered probably then how come

1243
01:04:31,260 --> 01:04:26,470
nobody has ever reported there nobody's

1244
01:04:33,930 --> 01:04:31,270
ever seen yeah well there you go I mean

1245
01:04:37,950 --> 01:04:33,940
okay so how do you you you've got you've

1246
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:37,960
got a push a something really hard to

1247
01:04:42,660 --> 01:04:40,330
get to convince as someone with a a

1248
01:04:47,610 --> 01:04:42,670
so-called scientific background there's

1249
01:04:49,260 --> 01:04:47,620
something like that is is legit I would

1250
01:04:51,770 --> 01:04:49,270
never use that story as a way to

1251
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:51,780
convince anybody of anything no I I

1252
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:54,370
realize that but you know it always kind

1253
01:05:01,350 --> 01:04:57,010
of a it's all kind of wrapped up in the

1254
01:05:04,170 --> 01:05:01,360
same package here it's not it's not you

1255
01:05:06,900 --> 01:05:04,180
know separated so well Chris O'Brien

1256
01:05:11,910 --> 01:05:06,910
this is you know what's happened and you

1257
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:11,920
can yeah many people know how how

1258
01:05:17,010 --> 01:05:13,930
important that particular event is in my

1259
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:17,020
life I mean it was one of the most

1260
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:19,170
important events of my life it changed

1261
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:22,930
the the direction it changed the scope

1262
01:05:33,790 --> 01:05:30,190
without a fight it solidified a new a

1263
01:05:36,730 --> 01:05:33,800
new path that I was on now most of these

1264
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:36,740
these objects who describes it just a

1265
01:05:46,270 --> 01:05:39,850
little while ago seeing are they all

1266
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:46,280
noiseless for the most part yeah a few

1267
01:05:54,580 --> 01:05:53,090
had there was the cheap fireworks I I

1268
01:05:57,450 --> 01:05:54,590
heard a couple of those

1269
01:06:01,540 --> 01:05:57,460
there was a crackling hissing sound

1270
01:06:04,260 --> 01:06:01,550
mm-hmm and and what was the cloud the

1271
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:04,270
closest that one of these objects came

1272
01:06:12,190 --> 01:06:09,410
90 feet maybe feet and could you see

1273
01:06:13,810 --> 01:06:12,200
exceptional detail or I'm talking about

1274
01:06:18,450 --> 01:06:13,820
something that's like an actual applause

1275
01:06:21,940 --> 01:06:18,460
maker it was a four to six foot diameter

1276
01:06:24,970 --> 01:06:21,950
sphere that was perfectly slate gray the

1277
01:06:27,670 --> 01:06:24,980
color of the pre-dawn sky and you know

1278
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:27,680
the entire the ground in the air and the

1279
01:06:30,730 --> 01:06:29,210
only reason why I knew it was there was

1280
01:06:32,890 --> 01:06:30,740
because it was silhouetted against the

1281
01:06:34,900 --> 01:06:32,900
dark trees of the foothills as soon as

1282
01:06:35,530 --> 01:06:34,910
it got beyond the foothills in the

1283
01:06:37,630 --> 01:06:35,540
background

1284
01:06:39,310 --> 01:06:37,640
it disappeared except for a very thin

1285
01:06:41,890 --> 01:06:39,320
line that outlined it because it was

1286
01:06:44,860 --> 01:06:41,900
perfectly matched in camouflage with the

1287
01:06:46,870 --> 01:06:44,870
light and it's like I said it was it was

1288
01:06:50,230 --> 01:06:46,880
following hugging the terrain it was

1289
01:06:52,390 --> 01:06:50,240
perfectly matching the terrain you know

1290
01:06:54,940 --> 01:06:52,400
at its closest point was at the end of

1291
01:06:57,310 --> 01:06:54,950
my driveway about 90 feet away so now

1292
01:07:00,220 --> 01:06:57,320
you think it had you picked out in

1293
01:07:01,780 --> 01:07:00,230
particular no no it just was cruising

1294
01:07:03,970 --> 01:07:01,790
down the road I just happened to be

1295
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:03,980
outside spoke and see it

1296
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:05,690
I'm normally you know I wasn't up at 5

1297
01:07:12,430 --> 01:07:10,490
in the morning yeah and how was there

1298
01:07:16,210 --> 01:07:12,440
any particular period of time when these

1299
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:16,220
things we're showing up on a I would say

1300
01:07:21,580 --> 01:07:17,930
nightly but not necessarily nightly

1301
01:07:25,300 --> 01:07:21,590
honest a predetermined basis yeah if you

1302
01:07:30,340 --> 01:07:25,310
look at my my report log which you know

1303
01:07:33,460 --> 01:07:30,350
I kept a just a religiously documented

1304
01:07:35,950 --> 01:07:33,470
log of for 10 years of all these events

1305
01:07:37,870 --> 01:07:35,960
that I experienced that included

1306
01:07:40,930 --> 01:07:37,880
aberrant social behavior weird weather

1307
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:40,940
strange military act

1308
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:43,730
you know all kinds of things well you

1309
01:07:49,390 --> 01:07:46,730
know included in the log it abdun flowed

1310
01:07:51,940 --> 01:07:49,400
and whenever one type of thing seemed to

1311
01:07:54,190 --> 01:07:51,950
be occurring we would have a flurry of

1312
01:07:56,910 --> 01:07:54,200
other things everything seemed to come

1313
01:07:59,740 --> 01:07:56,920
in groups with divergent phenomena

1314
01:08:02,650 --> 01:07:59,750
manifesting within flaps you know

1315
01:08:05,710 --> 01:08:02,660
periods of time when when things just

1316
01:08:08,349 --> 01:08:05,720
would go crazy even fires you know weird

1317
01:08:12,819 --> 01:08:08,359
fires twelve fires in one weekend

1318
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:12,829
the the the this is my favorite one the

1319
01:08:18,340 --> 01:08:14,930
bride at a wedding her sister was the

1320
01:08:21,220 --> 01:08:18,350
was the the maid of honor this is a real

1321
01:08:23,740 --> 01:08:21,230
important family in the valley in during

1322
01:08:26,579 --> 01:08:23,750
the reception the bride and her sister

1323
01:08:28,930 --> 01:08:26,589
the maid of honor got into a fight and

1324
01:08:31,150 --> 01:08:28,940
the younger sister knife to the death

1325
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:31,160
the bride knife knife a bride to death

1326
01:08:37,630 --> 01:08:34,489
and we had 12 fires incredible amounts

1327
01:08:40,570 --> 01:08:37,640
of roadkill weird weather and Steven

1328
01:08:46,769 --> 01:08:40,580
Greer calling in ETS all in the same

1329
01:08:53,740 --> 01:08:46,779
weekend I would I would think so

1330
01:08:56,099 --> 01:08:53,750
recent activity in September we had two

1331
01:08:59,169 --> 01:08:56,109
weeks of stuff flying all over the place

1332
01:09:02,320 --> 01:08:59,179
unfortunately we were we were just

1333
01:09:05,260 --> 01:09:02,330
gotten our earth our cameras up at the

1334
01:09:06,820 --> 01:09:05,270
very end of this flap of activity so

1335
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:06,830
that's that's when we saw our first

1336
01:09:15,039 --> 01:09:12,770
events but there's been I see beginning

1337
01:09:19,510 --> 01:09:15,049
December there were some some events

1338
01:09:21,849 --> 01:09:19,520
that we captured again just lights in

1339
01:09:26,789 --> 01:09:21,859
the sky but you know stuff the people

1340
01:09:29,919 --> 01:09:26,799
were reporting as strange and weird I

1341
01:09:33,430 --> 01:09:29,929
mean I'd have to go and check my notes

1342
01:09:37,380 --> 01:09:33,440
but it flows usually it's fallen in

1343
01:09:43,209 --> 01:09:37,390
spring those are the predominant times

1344
01:09:45,999 --> 01:09:43,219
yeah and any reason for that do you

1345
01:09:49,090 --> 01:09:46,009
think I mean anything you could put your

1346
01:09:52,930 --> 01:09:49,100
hand on you know I don't know March

1347
01:09:53,769 --> 01:09:52,940
through May into early June and you know

1348
01:09:57,220 --> 01:09:53,779
late August

1349
01:09:57,669 --> 01:09:57,230
to the end of November on a Wednesday

1350
01:10:00,220 --> 01:09:57,679
night

1351
01:10:05,430 --> 01:10:00,230
that's the your best chance of seeing

1352
01:10:08,109 --> 01:10:05,440
something anywhere but in the same I was

1353
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:08,119
thinking that that's what John keel once

1354
01:10:14,020 --> 01:10:11,090
told me that the majority the his

1355
01:10:16,390 --> 01:10:14,030
sightings were on a Wednesday night

1356
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:16,400
that's between nine and 11 o'clock or

1357
01:10:25,089 --> 01:10:18,170
something like that yeah that's exactly

1358
01:10:28,959 --> 01:10:25,099
two 8:30 and twelve actually well I you

1359
01:10:30,959 --> 01:10:28,969
can't come up with a a cycle of some

1360
01:10:34,270 --> 01:10:30,969
kind of would explain that I suppose I

1361
01:10:36,970 --> 01:10:34,280
got a crunching but I I you know I

1362
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:36,980
reserve the right not to mention it

1363
01:10:42,399 --> 01:10:40,250
because I don't really feel that it's

1364
01:10:45,580 --> 01:10:42,409
something I can I can really back up and

1365
01:10:49,779 --> 01:10:45,590
demonstrate as soon as I is I identify a

1366
01:10:54,100 --> 01:10:49,789
pattern and open my mouth about it the

1367
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:54,110
exact opposite oh boy yeah yeah isn't

1368
01:10:57,250 --> 01:10:55,730
that always seem to be the case in this

1369
01:11:02,310 --> 01:10:57,260
here here you know just when you think

1370
01:11:04,899 --> 01:11:02,320
you're on to some great disclosure or

1371
01:11:08,410 --> 01:11:04,909
explanation something like a commercial

1372
01:11:20,500 --> 01:11:08,420
break comes right in and forces with you

1373
01:11:27,229 --> 01:11:24,650
now back to exploring the bazaars with

1374
01:11:30,530 --> 01:11:27,239
two of the most electrifying researchers

1375
01:11:35,780 --> 01:11:30,540
in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy Becky

1376
01:11:38,419 --> 01:11:35,790
Lee panting Swift's all right and

1377
01:11:40,100 --> 01:11:38,429
welcome back to the final segment of the

1378
01:11:42,260 --> 01:11:40,110
exploring the bazaar we're just having a

1379
01:11:46,070 --> 01:11:42,270
great time tonight with Chris O'Brien

1380
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:46,080
and Nouriel Hayakawa and so nori oh I

1381
01:11:51,950 --> 01:11:48,090
mean we can't let this show go by

1382
01:12:00,050 --> 01:11:51,960
without talking about Dulce New Mexico

1383
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:00,060
now this this is something that just

1384
01:12:06,500 --> 01:12:02,610
kind to me I mean it just seemed to come

1385
01:12:10,990 --> 01:12:06,510
up out of nowhere and I mean it just

1386
01:12:15,169 --> 01:12:11,000
really embraces the the spectrum of

1387
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:15,179
insanity some of the stories that I've

1388
01:12:18,290 --> 01:12:17,010
heard over the years I mean you know

1389
01:12:24,830 --> 01:12:18,300
what

1390
01:12:28,430 --> 01:12:24,840
you know how did it become this this you

1391
01:12:31,610 --> 01:12:28,440
know like landmark for for UFO insanity

1392
01:12:33,979 --> 01:12:31,620
I guess well I think this is a very good

1393
01:12:36,530 --> 01:12:33,989
question because most people have no

1394
01:12:40,490 --> 01:12:36,540
idea that the United States Department

1395
01:12:45,620 --> 01:12:40,500
of Energy in 1967 exploded a nuclear

1396
01:12:50,330 --> 01:12:45,630
device about 22 miles southwest of Dulce

1397
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:50,340
and it's presently known as Project gas

1398
01:12:59,540 --> 01:12:54,650
buggy but the Atomic Energy Commission

1399
01:13:03,590 --> 01:12:59,550
tried to do this experiment in order to

1400
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:03,600
facilitate the flow of natural gas in

1401
01:13:16,130 --> 01:13:09,890
that area you know and unfortunately it

1402
01:13:18,620 --> 01:13:16,140
it resulted in the eventual radiation

1403
01:13:22,899 --> 01:13:18,630
leakage of some sort around that area

1404
01:13:25,750 --> 01:13:22,909
and including dr. Airy and

1405
01:13:29,529 --> 01:13:25,760
I find it very interesting that the OSI

1406
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:29,539
area seems to have a high case of cancer

1407
01:13:37,660 --> 01:13:33,489
among a number of people you know and

1408
01:13:42,939 --> 01:13:37,670
but anyway the 1967 project gasps buggy

1409
01:13:45,609 --> 01:13:42,949
underground explosion may have become a

1410
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:45,619
catalyst for some people with wild

1411
01:13:51,970 --> 01:13:48,530
imaginations to think that the

1412
01:13:56,770 --> 01:13:51,980
government was trying to either create a

1413
01:14:02,229 --> 01:13:56,780
cavern over there or trying to decimate

1414
01:14:04,419 --> 01:14:02,239
the alien entities who are living in

1415
01:14:07,569 --> 01:14:04,429
that area on the ground and you know so

1416
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:07,579
that this is a word of the interesting

1417
01:14:16,330 --> 01:14:12,770
items the 1967 atomic test near Dulce

1418
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:16,340
and but then the the other item is of

1419
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:18,530
course what Chris O'Brien has been

1420
01:14:25,930 --> 01:14:22,090
talking about the the eventual

1421
01:14:28,810 --> 01:14:25,940
proliferation of general methylations in

1422
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:28,820
that whole area you know just not not

1423
01:14:32,709 --> 01:14:31,010
just the southern Colorado but you know

1424
01:14:36,390 --> 01:14:32,719
dosa area which is right next to this

1425
01:14:39,870 --> 01:14:36,400
out in Colorado but anyway yeah to me

1426
01:14:43,180 --> 01:14:39,880
Dalton is a very fascinating place where

1427
01:14:45,430 --> 01:14:43,190
the Native Americans have a very

1428
01:14:50,919 --> 01:14:45,440
deep-rooted cultural and spiritual

1429
01:14:53,970 --> 01:14:50,929
beliefs and that resembles belief in the

1430
01:14:58,209 --> 01:14:53,980
paranormal and this is the reason why

1431
01:15:01,600 --> 01:14:58,219
that place seemed to have been an ideal

1432
01:15:03,549 --> 01:15:01,610
target location for perhaps the

1433
01:15:09,060 --> 01:15:03,559
government to conduct some kind of

1434
01:15:11,260 --> 01:15:09,070
psyops programs using and you know

1435
01:15:14,740 --> 01:15:11,270
taking advantage of the people to

1436
01:15:18,549 --> 01:15:14,750
believe there and create some kind of a

1437
01:15:22,229 --> 01:15:18,559
scenario to conduct some kind of a you

1438
01:15:25,419 --> 01:15:22,239
know deceptive scenarios involving

1439
01:15:29,500 --> 01:15:25,429
aliens and you know so that was one of

1440
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:29,510
my theories before but you know I do

1441
01:15:33,790 --> 01:15:30,890
believe that that

1442
01:15:37,480 --> 01:15:33,800
area is significant in the fact that

1443
01:15:41,050 --> 01:15:37,490
it's an area that still even today is

1444
01:15:43,230 --> 01:15:41,060
filled with stories told by local people

1445
01:15:47,740 --> 01:15:43,240
of how they have seen some strange

1446
01:15:52,090 --> 01:15:47,750
activities like you know the some small

1447
01:15:56,890 --> 01:15:52,100
entities or even big food or things like

1448
01:16:00,280 --> 01:15:56,900
that you know so I cannot debunk any of

1449
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:00,290
these claims but the question is were

1450
01:16:06,970 --> 01:16:02,930
they actually seeing the material

1451
01:16:10,390 --> 01:16:06,980
physical phenomenon war a phenomenon

1452
01:16:13,390 --> 01:16:10,400
that was presenting to the observer as

1453
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:13,400
being a physical excitation phenomenon

1454
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:16,250
and visitation and that's the big

1455
01:16:22,630 --> 01:16:16,850
question

1456
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:22,640
and you know as far as having contacts

1457
01:16:28,300 --> 01:16:25,130
with so-called aliens I mean there are

1458
01:16:32,170 --> 01:16:28,310
tens of thousands of claims of contact

1459
01:16:36,550 --> 01:16:32,180
with aliens by 1050 known by people but

1460
01:16:40,570 --> 01:16:36,560
yet there's no tangible physical what I

1461
01:16:43,930 --> 01:16:40,580
call even a souvenir that you know even

1462
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:43,940
an ashtray or a box or small machine

1463
01:16:51,370 --> 01:16:48,050
anything will do it happened there's not

1464
01:16:54,790 --> 01:16:51,380
you know what souvenir reported that can

1465
01:16:57,250 --> 01:16:54,800
be analyzed universally by the world

1466
01:17:00,340 --> 01:16:57,260
scientists and so this is a mystery and

1467
01:17:02,500 --> 01:17:00,350
this is a mystery because my final

1468
01:17:05,170 --> 01:17:02,510
conclusion about this whole thing is

1469
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:05,180
that whole UFO phenomenon appears to be

1470
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:09,650
a temporary para physical intrusion into

1471
01:17:14,350 --> 01:17:12,050
a physical dimension by an unknown

1472
01:17:17,860 --> 01:17:14,360
intelligence or unknown sentient

1473
01:17:21,490 --> 01:17:17,870
entities para physically materializing

1474
01:17:24,450 --> 01:17:21,500
themselves to a pre-selected observer or

1475
01:17:26,590 --> 01:17:24,460
a pre-selected group of observers and

1476
01:17:29,230 --> 01:17:26,600
presenting to the observers as a

1477
01:17:31,530 --> 01:17:29,240
physical Mexican Tourister phenomenon

1478
01:17:35,620 --> 01:17:31,540
and visitation which I considered to be

1479
01:17:39,580 --> 01:17:35,630
close to some kind of a deceptive thing

1480
01:17:44,469 --> 01:17:39,590
or deception I believe that was the name

1481
01:17:49,119 --> 01:17:44,479
of your first book I yeah

1482
01:17:50,469 --> 01:17:49,129
exception in the title yes I can't

1483
01:17:52,359 --> 01:17:50,479
remember the exact title but we sold a

1484
01:17:54,099 --> 01:17:52,369
few copies of that in the old days yeah

1485
01:17:56,769 --> 01:17:54,109
well what would you say about their

1486
01:18:02,369 --> 01:17:56,779
implants is this not some form of

1487
01:18:04,809 --> 01:18:02,379
physical of implants is is very

1488
01:18:07,239 --> 01:18:04,819
interesting and important but you know

1489
01:18:11,289 --> 01:18:07,249
you have to take the consideration of

1490
01:18:15,159 --> 01:18:11,299
the opinions of the world's vast

1491
01:18:18,009 --> 01:18:15,169
majority of engineers and scientists who

1492
01:18:19,719 --> 01:18:18,019
specialize in these things and so far we

1493
01:18:24,249 --> 01:18:19,729
haven't come up with any conclusive

1494
01:18:28,509 --> 01:18:24,259
evidence about these these implants are

1495
01:18:31,899 --> 01:18:28,519
many of these implants we have them I

1496
01:18:34,829 --> 01:18:31,909
mean now let's face it we have a lot of

1497
01:18:39,549 --> 01:18:34,839
implants and every year the implant

1498
01:18:43,839 --> 01:18:39,559
system is the is advancing so much just

1499
01:18:46,839 --> 01:18:43,849
like even holographic imagery technology

1500
01:18:50,349 --> 01:18:46,849
is advancing every year every year you

1501
01:18:53,949 --> 01:18:50,359
know and so you know we have a lot of

1502
01:18:57,789 --> 01:18:53,959
things that we consider to be out of

1503
01:18:59,889 --> 01:18:57,799
this world but now it's not out of this

1504
01:19:02,349 --> 01:18:59,899
world because we are developing with

1505
01:19:05,999 --> 01:19:02,359
most of these things right it's like

1506
01:19:08,589 --> 01:19:06,009
implants the size of a finishing nail or

1507
01:19:11,169 --> 01:19:08,599
possibly a sliver of glass with

1508
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:11,179
nanotechnology there's no way you're

1509
01:19:15,549 --> 01:19:13,489
gonna be able to learn to the 2id an

1510
01:19:17,259 --> 01:19:15,559
implant unless you're able to figure out

1511
01:19:19,869 --> 01:19:17,269
the frequency that are they're

1512
01:19:25,869 --> 01:19:19,879
transmitting and receiving on and I have

1513
01:19:27,279 --> 01:19:25,879
never seen any proof of transmitting an

1514
01:19:31,119 --> 01:19:27,289
object that is transmitting and

1515
01:19:33,369 --> 01:19:31,129
receiving data so this is the conclusion

1516
01:19:36,609 --> 01:19:33,379
as far as I'm concerned you know the

1517
01:19:40,839 --> 01:19:36,619
depiction of the objects seen worldwide

1518
01:19:44,079 --> 01:19:40,849
from time immemorial definitely seems to

1519
01:19:46,539 --> 01:19:44,089
correspond to the cultural as well as

1520
01:19:49,299 --> 01:19:46,549
technological understanding of the

1521
01:19:51,969 --> 01:19:49,309
people of each error so you know in

1522
01:19:54,969 --> 01:19:51,979
modern times the object scenes seem to

1523
01:19:57,000 --> 01:19:54,979
be more aerodynamic in form you know and

1524
01:19:58,830 --> 01:19:57,010
this is just one example that

1525
01:20:01,740 --> 01:19:58,840
this is some kind of a conditioning

1526
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:01,750
system just like dr. Jacques Vallee has

1527
01:20:11,129 --> 01:20:05,650
been saying all along that you know it's

1528
01:20:16,700 --> 01:20:11,139
some kind of a influence that will alter

1529
01:20:19,709 --> 01:20:16,710
our belief systems and accept the

1530
01:20:22,459 --> 01:20:19,719
so-called alien presence whatever that

1531
01:20:27,959 --> 01:20:25,620
so I'm sorry go ahead

1532
01:20:33,450 --> 01:20:27,969
I was gonna say that what we're seeing

1533
01:20:36,870 --> 01:20:33,460
as the the slow evolution of myth making

1534
01:20:39,450 --> 01:20:36,880
and this stuff of new 21st century mists

1535
01:20:40,919 --> 01:20:39,460
and possibly religious believe I think

1536
01:20:43,879 --> 01:20:40,929
one of the things that we really need to

1537
01:20:47,850 --> 01:20:43,889
look at is a possibility that somehow

1538
01:20:50,580 --> 01:20:47,860
Gaia our planet is trying to get us to

1539
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:50,590
get the heck off of here before we trash

1540
01:20:55,470 --> 01:20:53,650
the planet too much get ourselves out

1541
01:20:58,620 --> 01:20:55,480
there as a high-tech civilization and

1542
01:21:03,259 --> 01:20:58,630
start seeding our DNA out into the

1543
01:21:05,879 --> 01:21:03,269
universe you know that's one kind of a

1544
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:05,889
know that's one area that I have been

1545
01:21:10,799 --> 01:21:08,170
spending more and more time considering

1546
01:21:13,890 --> 01:21:10,809
and I think that we're seeing some sort

1547
01:21:16,620 --> 01:21:13,900
of of trickery to the trickster is

1548
01:21:21,060 --> 01:21:16,630
trying to get us off the planet as one

1549
01:21:24,209 --> 01:21:21,070
possible motivation for whatever it is

1550
01:21:26,629 --> 01:21:24,219
that's behind these very fantastic

1551
01:21:28,859 --> 01:21:26,639
phenomena pushing us out of our nest

1552
01:21:34,709 --> 01:21:28,869
well we're not no we're not going very

1553
01:21:36,629 --> 01:21:34,719
fast are we well Donald Trump's trying

1554
01:21:44,310 --> 01:21:36,639
to get us off there we need a space for

1555
01:21:45,959 --> 01:21:44,320
us to fight the space force for us to

1556
01:21:47,819 --> 01:21:45,969
get away from Donald Trump that's what

1557
01:21:54,779 --> 01:21:47,829
it well that's that's gonna cost them

1558
01:21:59,520 --> 01:21:54,789
whether five billion billion well okay

1559
01:22:04,399 --> 01:21:59,530
my question is though if this is the

1560
01:22:07,109 --> 01:22:04,409
case if we are looking at some kind of

1561
01:22:09,180 --> 01:22:07,119
phenomenon you know that you know be a

1562
01:22:10,330 --> 01:22:09,190
paranormal you know enter debate or

1563
01:22:14,730 --> 01:22:10,340
however you would

1564
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:14,740
to describe it how do you go about

1565
01:22:25,240 --> 01:22:22,010
changing our ideas on how to investigate

1566
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:25,250
it isn't quite the right word but you

1567
01:22:31,570 --> 01:22:27,650
know to look in it into it and get a

1568
01:22:33,100 --> 01:22:31,580
better understanding of it because you

1569
01:22:36,310 --> 01:22:33,110
know due to the fact that it's you know

1570
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:36,320
mercurial nature it's it's

1571
01:22:41,230 --> 01:22:38,930
chameleon-like nature and as soon as you

1572
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:41,240
know as you said earlier Chris as soon

1573
01:22:46,710 --> 01:22:42,890
as you get an idea of what you're

1574
01:22:48,910 --> 01:22:46,720
dealing with it goes and changes here

1575
01:22:52,540 --> 01:22:48,920
360 degrees and now it's something

1576
01:22:56,260 --> 01:22:52,550
different I mean so I mean how how can

1577
01:23:00,100 --> 01:22:56,270
you even put a finger on something like

1578
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:00,110
that well I don't know about norio but

1579
01:23:04,990 --> 01:23:02,210
I've always been a champion of thinking

1580
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:05,000
outside of the box and and you know

1581
01:23:12,190 --> 01:23:09,170
again I I must echo Nouri owes a

1582
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:12,200
wonderful you know knowledge meant of

1583
01:23:18,510 --> 01:23:16,130
dr. Jacques Vallee and John keel and and

1584
01:23:20,440 --> 01:23:18,520
others there's been quite a number of

1585
01:23:22,540 --> 01:23:20,450
people through the years that have

1586
01:23:24,610 --> 01:23:22,550
championed a different approach a

1587
01:23:28,450 --> 01:23:24,620
different mindset an out-of-the-box

1588
01:23:30,580 --> 01:23:28,460
perspective I think that there's there's

1589
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:30,590
room for creative thinking in this field

1590
01:23:39,190 --> 01:23:36,610
but we have to get over the

1591
01:23:41,530 --> 01:23:39,200
extra-terrestrial hypothesis running

1592
01:23:45,630 --> 01:23:41,540
roughshod over creative thinking in this

1593
01:23:49,740 --> 01:23:45,640
field unfortunately we do not have

1594
01:23:53,260 --> 01:23:49,750
enough wiggle room with the media with

1595
01:23:56,050 --> 01:23:53,270
the intelligence agencies and with the

1596
01:23:58,600 --> 01:23:56,060
culture I think you know the snowball

1597
01:24:00,580 --> 01:23:58,610
the ETH snowball rolling down the hill

1598
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:00,590
is running roughshod and creative

1599
01:24:04,930 --> 01:24:02,330
thinking I think the very first thing we

1600
01:24:07,630 --> 01:24:04,940
need to do is get people to open up

1601
01:24:10,210 --> 01:24:07,640
their minds and start considering that

1602
01:24:13,330 --> 01:24:10,220
there are possibly and probably in my in

1603
01:24:16,540 --> 01:24:13,340
my view other explanations that are

1604
01:24:19,480 --> 01:24:16,550
operative here and until we break the

1605
01:24:21,790 --> 01:24:19,490
hold of the ETH on the culture it's

1606
01:24:23,090 --> 01:24:21,800
going to be almost impossible to make

1607
01:24:26,750 --> 01:24:23,100
any sort of progress

1608
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:26,760
beyond hard data monitoring of hot spot

1609
01:24:32,350 --> 01:24:28,890
areas like I'm doing with the UFO debt

1610
01:24:36,380 --> 01:24:32,360
project and and attempts to you know

1611
01:24:38,750 --> 01:24:36,390
create a dialogue and create a access

1612
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:38,760
point to academia in the scientific

1613
01:24:45,610 --> 01:24:41,850
community the other than that we have to

1614
01:24:49,370 --> 01:24:45,620
break the stranglehold of primitive ETH

1615
01:24:52,810 --> 01:24:49,380
religious thinking it's nothing's coming

1616
01:24:55,010 --> 01:24:52,820
here save us arrears now you know the

1617
01:24:57,500 --> 01:24:55,020
okay so people in the field the

1618
01:25:03,070 --> 01:24:57,510
researchers the and so forth

1619
01:25:06,790 --> 01:25:03,080
they tend now today I think to be more

1620
01:25:08,780 --> 01:25:06,800
skittish when it comes to the ETH

1621
01:25:11,300 --> 01:25:08,790
explanation I mean most of them seem to

1622
01:25:15,290 --> 01:25:11,310
be open to the idea that this could be

1623
01:25:18,110 --> 01:25:15,300
you know a paranormal but it's the

1624
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:18,120
people who are having the experiences to

1625
01:25:24,650 --> 01:25:21,570
a large part who insists that what they

1626
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:24,660
are encountering are extraterrestrial so

1627
01:25:29,390 --> 01:25:26,610
I mean if somebody feels that they've

1628
01:25:31,490 --> 01:25:29,400
met an ET how do you convince them

1629
01:25:34,460 --> 01:25:31,500
otherwise or why would you even kind of

1630
01:25:36,140 --> 01:25:34,470
bother I don't know I always convinced

1631
01:25:40,220 --> 01:25:36,150
before they even had the experience

1632
01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:40,230
their program well that could pop that

1633
01:25:44,270 --> 01:25:42,210
that could be true there's no there's no

1634
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:44,280
doubt about that but there are a lot of

1635
01:25:49,610 --> 01:25:46,890
cases also where people say that they've

1636
01:25:51,230 --> 01:25:49,620
had absolutely no involvement or

1637
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:51,240
interest in this and don't even read

1638
01:25:56,350 --> 01:25:53,970
science fiction and they come away you

1639
01:26:00,050 --> 01:25:56,360
know thinking that they've been

1640
01:26:01,670 --> 01:26:00,060
encountered a core of course now these

1641
01:26:04,910 --> 01:26:01,680
entities are not to be taken at their

1642
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:04,920
word either I mean if you beat somebody

1643
01:26:09,460 --> 01:26:07,890
in a you know in a vacation or an outing

1644
01:26:12,050 --> 01:26:09,470
and they tell you that they're from

1645
01:26:14,450 --> 01:26:12,060
Denmark I mean how do you know really

1646
01:26:16,580 --> 01:26:14,460
where they're from I mean like maybe

1647
01:26:19,940 --> 01:26:16,590
that there's probably not even an

1648
01:26:24,890 --> 01:26:19,950
important question to ask it's putting

1649
01:26:26,930 --> 01:26:24,900
you know some some concept out there I

1650
01:26:29,780 --> 01:26:26,940
don't even know if we're ready for a

1651
01:26:32,330 --> 01:26:29,790
concept I mean there is no real concept

1652
01:26:34,580 --> 01:26:32,340
of this because the it's such a very a

1653
01:26:35,899 --> 01:26:34,590
concept and it's called a trickster and

1654
01:26:37,310 --> 01:26:35,909
there's there's

1655
01:26:39,919 --> 01:26:37,320
what we have to do is allow the

1656
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:39,929
trickster Donald Trump would be a

1657
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:42,210
perfect example of a trickster in a

1658
01:26:48,110 --> 01:26:44,610
political cultural sense but we need

1659
01:26:49,910 --> 01:26:48,120
tricksters to topple you know ecstatic

1660
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:49,920
belief systems that are that are gaining

1661
01:26:55,459 --> 01:26:53,010
too much control and too much influence

1662
01:26:58,700 --> 01:26:55,469
within the culture the trickster is is

1663
01:27:01,879 --> 01:26:58,710
is is by its very nature will topple

1664
01:27:04,490 --> 01:27:01,889
static structures and so what was

1665
01:27:08,060 --> 01:27:04,500
seniors I think was seeing the rumblings

1666
01:27:11,060 --> 01:27:08,070
of a complete toppling of accepted

1667
01:27:13,430 --> 01:27:11,070
belief systems and and these are the

1668
01:27:15,830 --> 01:27:13,440
belief systems that create you know

1669
01:27:20,209 --> 01:27:15,840
religious control structures colonizing

1670
01:27:22,780 --> 01:27:20,219
spirit these are the structures of the

1671
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:22,790
political and cultural and economic

1672
01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:25,650
structures a lot of this stuff has got

1673
01:27:33,950 --> 01:27:30,690
to be has got to be shown to be not as

1674
01:27:36,410 --> 01:27:33,960
monolithic and impermanent as as people

1675
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:36,420
are programmed to believe and I think

1676
01:27:42,620 --> 01:27:39,090
we're right in the middle of that

1677
01:27:44,930 --> 01:27:42,630
process and this all ties into how

1678
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:44,940
people are programmed to think that

1679
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:48,650
these unusual experiences are something

1680
01:27:54,410 --> 01:27:51,449
that it's from out there from a

1681
01:27:56,570 --> 01:27:54,420
three-dimensional planet or or ship out

1682
01:27:58,459 --> 01:27:56,580
there in the cosmos I think that we're

1683
01:28:01,760 --> 01:27:58,469
dealing with something closed system and

1684
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:01,770
and I think one more they just wanna do

1685
01:28:08,149 --> 01:28:06,210
they want us to believe that well see if

1686
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:08,159
they give it away then we're gonna try

1687
01:28:14,890 --> 01:28:11,010
to find them I mean I know you're the

1688
01:28:17,689 --> 01:28:14,900
guy that believes in aliens in ETS

1689
01:28:19,820 --> 01:28:17,699
you know that we're not the aliens and

1690
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:19,830
what you think or ETS are more

1691
01:28:24,020 --> 01:28:22,650
terrestrial than we are I think there's

1692
01:28:25,820 --> 01:28:24,030
other tenants in the building whether

1693
01:28:28,879 --> 01:28:25,830
it's dimensional whether it's crypto

1694
01:28:31,370 --> 01:28:28,889
whether it's ultra whether it's meta I

1695
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:31,380
think there's other terrestrials around

1696
01:28:39,010 --> 01:28:36,449
where we a computer simulation well yeah

1697
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:39,020
that's I think the Large Hadron Collider

1698
01:28:45,410 --> 01:28:42,690
had had a malfunction and all of a

1699
01:28:47,140 --> 01:28:45,420
sudden were in some sort of weird alien

1700
01:28:49,630 --> 01:28:47,150
reality show where

1701
01:28:51,939 --> 01:28:49,640
reality shows you know scars now

1702
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:51,949
president and you know all bets are off

1703
01:28:57,820 --> 01:28:54,770
I think you know I really do I think

1704
01:28:59,770 --> 01:28:57,830
that something weird happened and we're

1705
01:29:02,080 --> 01:28:59,780
in some sort of parallel universe that

1706
01:29:09,399 --> 01:29:02,090
happened about three years ago would

1707
01:29:13,060 --> 01:29:09,409
explain a lot wouldn't it nori oh I mean

1708
01:29:21,030 --> 01:29:13,070
what do you think well you know I have a

1709
01:29:25,320 --> 01:29:21,040
very uh what what call it disappointing

1710
01:29:28,709 --> 01:29:25,330
outlook on this whole apology and

1711
01:29:31,750 --> 01:29:28,719
because you know let's take for example

1712
01:29:36,580 --> 01:29:31,760
it's it was less than a hundred fifty

1713
01:29:39,070 --> 01:29:36,590
years before when men invented you know

1714
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:39,080
something heavier than air to fly you

1715
01:29:45,090 --> 01:29:41,449
know it's just less than hundred years

1716
01:29:47,950 --> 01:29:45,100
150 years and so let's say that

1717
01:29:51,220 --> 01:29:47,960
according to Los Alamos former Los

1718
01:29:53,919 --> 01:29:51,230
Alamos scientists and Rico for me he

1719
01:29:56,290 --> 01:29:53,929
said that there are billions of stars of

1720
01:29:58,060 --> 01:29:56,300
course in the galaxy that are similar to

1721
01:30:00,189 --> 01:29:58,070
the Sun and many of these stars and

1722
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:00,199
billions of years older than a solar

1723
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:02,090
system and if that's the case you know

1724
01:30:07,090 --> 01:30:04,850
with the high probability some of these

1725
01:30:09,820 --> 01:30:07,100
stars have looked like piranhas and so

1726
01:30:11,729 --> 01:30:09,830
on and some there may be some

1727
01:30:15,189 --> 01:30:11,739
civilization that have developed

1728
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:15,199
interstellar travel and let's say they

1729
01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:18,050
are a million years ahead in technology

1730
01:30:26,919 --> 01:30:21,290
now a million is a hidden technology

1731
01:30:30,850 --> 01:30:26,929
means that by now they would have we

1732
01:30:33,010 --> 01:30:30,860
would have been visited by them but

1733
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:33,020
where is everybody that's the big

1734
01:30:39,209 --> 01:30:35,570
question that Enrico Fermi asked and as

1735
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:39,219
I said a million years advanced

1736
01:30:45,790 --> 01:30:42,890
technology is just a hundred fifty years

1737
01:30:48,100 --> 01:30:45,800
it's just nothing you know man invented

1738
01:30:51,550 --> 01:30:48,110
airplanes you know less than hundred

1739
01:30:55,870 --> 01:30:51,560
fifty years ago and and you know a

1740
01:31:00,479 --> 01:30:55,880
million years advanced well the they

1741
01:31:03,390 --> 01:31:00,489
would have already conquered the

1742
01:31:07,470 --> 01:31:03,400
to travel into interstellar you know

1743
01:31:10,340 --> 01:31:07,480
travel but you know like Fermi said well

1744
01:31:14,729 --> 01:31:10,350
where is everybody then why haven't been

1745
01:31:17,700 --> 01:31:14,739
the Fermi paradox and that's the big

1746
01:31:20,370 --> 01:31:17,710
question and but it's a question that

1747
01:31:22,590 --> 01:31:20,380
needs to be addressed as we you know

1748
01:31:26,610 --> 01:31:22,600
continue to study this amazing subject

1749
01:31:30,540 --> 01:31:26,620
of ufology now I would I would think

1750
01:31:34,380 --> 01:31:30,550
that a civilization that is a million

1751
01:31:37,350 --> 01:31:34,390
years advanced of us would be completely

1752
01:31:39,390 --> 01:31:37,360
unrecognizable you know by by you know

1753
01:31:41,670 --> 01:31:39,400
our primitive brains I mean you know

1754
01:31:43,650 --> 01:31:41,680
we're we're we're still thinking about

1755
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:43,660
you know running away from the tiger and

1756
01:31:48,410 --> 01:31:46,090
hiding in the bushes and a civilization

1757
01:31:51,540 --> 01:31:48,420
of million years ahead of us I mean it's

1758
01:31:54,570 --> 01:31:51,550
it's beyond our comprehension well

1759
01:31:56,940 --> 01:31:54,580
unfortunately go ahead Chris we was

1760
01:32:02,340 --> 01:31:56,950
gonna say they're probably harnessing

1761
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:02,350
the energy of star systems and beyond

1762
01:32:06,570 --> 01:32:04,330
all right gentlemen we're almost at the

1763
01:32:09,060 --> 01:32:06,580
the end of the program so I want to give

1764
01:32:12,209 --> 01:32:09,070
both of you a chance to let our audience

1765
01:32:15,090 --> 01:32:12,219
know where they can find out more about

1766
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:15,100
you Chris let's start with you well

1767
01:32:22,970 --> 01:32:17,530
we're about ready to go live with our

1768
01:32:27,420 --> 01:32:22,980
UFO DAP dot-com website it's UFO D isn't

1769
01:32:30,570 --> 01:32:27,430
data a is an acquisition C is a P as in

1770
01:32:33,510 --> 01:32:30,580
project you fo DAP comm we're gonna have

1771
01:32:35,130 --> 01:32:33,520
a website my website is our strange

1772
01:32:38,310 --> 01:32:35,140
planet calm

1773
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:38,320
it's a strange planet it's our strange

1774
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:41,530
planet alright and Nouriel what about

1775
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:44,530
you yes I have been researching this

1776
01:32:51,560 --> 01:32:47,050
subject for more than close to 61 years

1777
01:32:54,630 --> 01:32:51,570
but I never wrote any single book and I

1778
01:32:57,150 --> 01:32:54,640
it was my decision not to write a book

1779
01:32:59,570 --> 01:32:57,160
because why write a book about UFOs when

1780
01:33:02,490 --> 01:32:59,580
there are so many excellent books so I

1781
01:33:05,550 --> 01:33:02,500
didn't have time to write any books but

1782
01:33:09,060 --> 01:33:05,560
I began to write a lot of articles short

1783
01:33:11,990 --> 01:33:09,070
articles and commentaries and people can

1784
01:33:15,500 --> 01:33:12,000
find out my commentaries

1785
01:33:19,460 --> 01:33:15,510
this type of subjects by just going to

1786
01:33:23,210 --> 01:33:19,470
new Oreo Hayakawa dot word press.com

1787
01:33:26,090 --> 01:33:23,220
and just go to the index section and

1788
01:33:32,480 --> 01:33:26,100
there are hundreds and hundreds of

1789
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:32,490
articles on UFOs and even non related

1790
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:35,370
subjects like how great New Mexico is

1791
01:33:41,660 --> 01:33:38,610
and so on you know and I even wrote

1792
01:33:44,180 --> 01:33:41,670
articles on how to save money in

1793
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:44,190
funerals and so on so you know I have a

1794
01:33:52,790 --> 01:33:47,730
diversity of topics on my website noria

1795
01:33:56,510 --> 01:33:52,800
Hayakawa dot wordpress.com and and tim

1796
01:33:59,180 --> 01:33:56,520
we've been busy busy ourselves we just

1797
01:34:01,630 --> 01:33:59,190
published your book and Jeff the talking

1798
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:01,640
Mongoose the eighth wonder of the world

1799
01:34:07,790 --> 01:34:04,890
and we've got screwed by the aliens that

1800
01:34:11,270 --> 01:34:07,800
we've talked about and alien bloodless

1801
01:34:14,090 --> 01:34:11,280
and UFO hostilities and just about on

1802
01:34:16,670 --> 01:34:14,100
the verge of coming out is a book that

1803
01:34:19,400 --> 01:34:16,680
I've had myself David Bowie UFOs

1804
01:34:23,060 --> 01:34:19,410
witchcraft cocaine and the paranormal

1805
01:34:23,750 --> 01:34:23,070
the Akuma song of Wally Elmore the

1806
01:34:26,440 --> 01:34:23,760
rock-and-roll

1807
01:34:29,390 --> 01:34:26,450
white witch of New York now that's

1808
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:29,400
that's gonna be a great bookmark is

1809
01:34:34,910 --> 01:34:30,330
gossip

1810
01:34:39,020 --> 01:34:34,920
best with a lot a lot of a poker thrown

1811
01:34:42,230 --> 01:34:39,030
in there and even a UFO skywatcher too

1812
01:34:46,490 --> 01:34:42,240
and don't forget our YouTube channel

1813
01:34:50,750 --> 01:34:46,500
mr. UFOs secret files we're up to well

1814
01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:50,760
over 400 interviews and of course the

1815
01:34:57,380 --> 01:34:53,250
archives of exploring the bizarre can be

1816
01:34:59,600 --> 01:34:57,390
found on ke cor radio and thanks to all

1817
01:35:03,400 --> 01:34:59,610
our associates and friends including

1818
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:03,410
Peter Bernard and Helen havi and Carolyn

1819
01:35:10,220 --> 01:35:06,570
Rodriguez who keep the show afloat and

1820
01:35:11,210 --> 01:35:10,230
our activities very busy when t know for

1821
01:35:14,510 --> 01:35:11,220
being on

1822
01:35:16,460 --> 01:35:14,520
tangina of course yeah and thank you all

1823
01:35:22,570 --> 01:35:16,470
for being on we had a wonderful time and

1824
01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:25,490
you've been listening to exploring the

1825
01:35:32,150 --> 01:35:28,650
bazaar with hosts Timothy Beckley

1826
01:35:34,430 --> 01:35:32,160
panting Swartz they're taking back the

1827
01:35:36,980 --> 01:35:34,440
night by jetting non-stop across the

1828
01:35:40,280 --> 01:35:36,990
cosmos in search of the truly bizarre

1829
01:35:41,899 --> 01:35:40,290
and totally unexplained with you as

1830
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:41,909
they're cold

1831
01:35:48,919 --> 01:35:44,449
Thursday nights at 7:00 p.m. Pacific

1832
01:35:50,120 --> 01:35:48,929
10:00 p.m. Eastern on the K cor digital

1833
01:35:52,580 --> 01:35:50,130
radio

1834
01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:52,590
for more information on exploring the

1835
01:35:58,880 --> 01:35:56,010
bazaar and hosts Timothy Becky and Tim

1836
01:36:01,970 --> 01:35:58,890
Swartz check out their kco our digital

1837
01:36:08,180 --> 01:36:01,980
radio network follow their YouTube

1838
01:36:18,590 --> 01:36:08,190
channel @m our UFO 1100 explore the